is it illegal?

[irene89]

Hi, i'm thinking of buying a dreambox 500s and a dish. is it illegal to use it because it's free? I heard some people were arrested for using it here in Cyprus.
Also will i find some free servers and providers that are needed? please tell me where to look, i'm completely new at this.

[RuberDuck]

the hardware is not illegal no. however what your intending to do with it ie cardshare is highly illegal, but that does not tend to stop most people.

[anas123]

Its as legal as buying cheap dvds of your local chineese man

[rljutter]

the hardware is not illegal no. however what your intending to do with it ie cardshare is highly illegal, but that does not tend to stop most people.

I have the same question, if its not illegal to buy and install a dreambox 500s then at what exact point does it become illegal, is is when the cccam has been enabled or when a cline has been inputted and would a receiver with an inactive cline still be illegal? With the starviews on cable it was illegal once you installed the non fta software for it, so at what exact point would we go from legal to illegal ??

[jfish]

I have the same question, if its not illegal to buy and install a dreambox 500s then at what exact point does it become illegal, is is when the cccam has been enabled or when a cline has been inputted and would a receiver with an inactive cline still be illegal? With the starviews on cable it was illegal once you installed the non fta software for it, so at what exact point would we go from legal to illegal ??

in simple terms a dreambox is a freesat reciever, ie you can connect it to a satellite dish and pick up free channels

the moment you apply a C line in order to connect to another server to share a card, it becomes illegal

Just installing cccam doesnt make it illegal at all .. it what you do with ccccam that defines if it is legal or not

[gsmtech]

in simple terms a dreambox is a freesat reciever, ie you can connect it to a satellite dish and pick up free channels

the moment you apply a C line in order to connect to another server to share a card, it becomes illegal

Just installing cccam doesnt make it illegal at all .. it what you do with ccccam that defines if it is legal or not

Not so sure...theres a big grey areas surrounding the installing of Softcams themselves (CCcam, MGcamd, NewCS, OSCam NewcamD etc..), it is the softcams that actually provide the facility for you to be able to CS.
Why do you think Gemini/IHAD team, VIX team...etc have recently removed all Softcams from their built in image download servers and no longer support them or allow discussion of them on their forums ??
It's because theyre worried about the legality of them, scared they might be prosecuted...

[jfish]

Not so sure...theres a big grey areas surrounding the installing of Softcams themselves (CCcam, MGcamd, NewCS, OSCam NewcamD etc..), it is the softcams that actually provide the facility for you to be able to CS.
Why do you think Gemini/IHAD team, VIX team...etc have recently removed all Softcams from their built in image download servers and no longer support them or allow discussion of them on their forums ??
It's because theyre worried about the legality of them, scared they might be prosecuted...

yeah is a gray area, installation of softcam but from my point of view, installing a softcam (say cccam) and then configuring it to read your legit sly card (which you pay Sky) is ok, but once you share card out its becomes illegal ... thats my view on it

[gsmtech]

yeah is a gray area, installation of softcam but from my point of view, installing a softcam (say cccam) and then configuring it to read your legit sly card (which you pay Sky) is ok, but once you share card out its becomes illegal ... thats my view on it

Yeah...using Sly card in any hardware other than Slys reciever is against the terms and conditions you sign up to when you join Sly..so they can probably terminate your contract of they find out..

Not sure if they could prosecute you for pairing the card with a different reciever and just watching the services you pay for. Just because it's agaist Sly's terms and conditions doesnt make it illegal.

[andiewill]

This is a good read here (http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20100913/local/legality-of-satellite-reception-questioned) regarding this issue.

[rljutter]

Its that fine line i'm looking for, to put it another way if i had bought a dreambox 500s from the 2nd hand market and installed it in my home just to receive free channels would that be illegal if in the background it had ccam enabled with a non active cline........ My guess would be this is ok as i am not stealing a service although my receiver is capable of this should i change the cline to an active oone ............. Any thoughts ???

[andiewill]

I would say if you use it for free to air as you are supposed to, it's just like any other reeview box out there on the market and it will be ok.

It's when you use the added software to encrypt the pay services this is when you are stealing the c able / sat company's services which then you are breaking the law.

[jfish]

I would say if you use it for free to air as you are supposed to, it's just like any other reeview box out there on the market and it will be ok.

It's when you use the added software to encrypt the pay services this is when you are stealing the c able / sat company's services which then you are breaking the law.

my argument on the above is once I put my legit sly card in the box and start to view, I am not breaking the law - I am watching what I am entitled to as I am paying Sly my hard earned cash to watch the channels. I am breaking Sly T&C but not the law.

[rljutter]

my argument on the above is once I put my legit sly card in the box and start to view, I am not breaking the law - I am watching what I am entitled to as I am paying Sly my hard earned cash to watch the channels. I am breaking Sly T&C but not the law.
and if a cline was present but not valid do you think thats legal as again nobody is stealing anything ?

[jfish]

and if a cline was present but not valid do you think thats legal as again nobody is stealing anything ?

as long as the c line doesnt provide me with "keys" to decrypt the channel then no I am not breaking the law.

[themanfromuncle]

and if a cline was present but not valid do you think thats legal as again nobody is stealing anything ?

Don't know why you keep on comming back to non active or non valid clines. What use are they anyway? If they don't work then you are not receiving/sending keys and you are not doing anything illegal.

It is even possible to use lines legaly. For instance if you have two boxes (for ex. one in livingroom and one in bedroom) and share your valid sub via a line then you are not breaking the law, eventhough you are using a linux box, a softcam and a line.

It is the sharing with other people that is illegal.

[jfish]

Don't know why you keep on comming back to non active or non valid clines. What use are they anyway? If they don't work then you are not receiving/sending keys and you are not doing anything illegal.

It is even possible to use lines legaly. For instance if you have two boxes (for ex. one in livingroom and one in bedroom) and share your valid sub via a line then you are not breaking the law, eventhough you are using a linux box, a softcam and a line.

It is the sharing with other people that is illegal.

You are getting confused on the concept of card sharing - and when it becomes card sharing

It doesnt matter if you share your sly sub with another box in the same house or with someone outside of your house, its becomes illegal then .. once your share the card out that can provide valid keys (be it with cccam , mgcamd or some other softcam) that in my opinion becomes illegal.

[rigsby71]

Viewing pay TV channels without paying for them is illegal.

However way you do it.

End of.

[rljutter]

Viewing pay TV channels without paying for them is illegal.

However way you do it.

End of.

yes we all know that sharing cards is illegal, but like everything there is always a point when something goes from legal to illegal its finding that point, the general feeling seams to be that the fact a receiver is capable of stealing a service but not doing so ( i.e. no active cline ) is still legal but the second you input a valid cline ( that is not owned by you ) it becomes illegal.

[themanfromuncle]

You are getting confused on the concept of card sharing - and when it becomes card sharing

It doesnt matter if you share your sly sub with another box in the same house or with someone outside of your house, its becomes illegal then .. once your share the card out that can provide valid keys (be it with cccam , mgcamd or some other softcam) that in my opinion becomes illegal.

I think you are wrong (or we are missunderstanding each other).

You can't illegaly share with yourself (in your own household) but you may be in breech of the terms of your provider (and may lead to an ending of the contract).

Words like cardshare, payservers, cccam etc are not legal terms. Unless there is a law that specifically forbids cardsharing in those terms (as using a softcam to distribute keys) then the only applicable laws that forbid the sharing are the copyright laws. And these forbid the distribution of copyrighted content by what ever means.

As you can use softcams for legal purposses, the use of these in itself can not be illegal (unless specificly statueted as illegal).

Giving out lines to others or receiving them and using them is always illegal.

In my opinion the reason the imagemakers are no longer including the softcams in their images is so as not to get caught up in legal actions against people who have used their software to share illegally. They could be seen as accomplices by some judges in some countries. And they hope that this way this will not happen.

[themanfromuncle]

yes we all know that sharing cards is illegal, but like everything there is always a point when something goes from legal to illegal its finding that point, the general feeling seams to be that the fact a receiver is capable of stealing a service but not doing so ( i.e. no active cline ) is still legal but the second you input a valid cline ( that is not owned by you ) it becomes illegal.

I think you are right.

[andiewill]

Look lets get this termoligy correct .........

unlawfull is when you do something against the law.

and

Illeagle is a big sick bird.

PS:- sorry i could not resist :-)

[jfish]

I think you are wrong (or we are missunderstanding each other).

You can't illegaly share with yourself (in your own household) but you may be in breech of the terms of your provider (and may lead to an ending of the contract).

Words like cardshare, payservers, cccam etc are not legal terms. Unless there is a law that specifically forbids cardsharing in those terms (as using a softcam to distribute keys) then the only applicable laws that forbid the sharing are the copyright laws. And these forbid the distribution of copyrighted content by what ever means.

As you can use softcams for legal purposses, the use of these in itself can not be illegal (unless specificly statueted as illegal).



so let me get this straight

I have 2 DM 500s in my house and one single Sly subscription

What you are saying is I can share that single sly subscription to my 2 DM boxes in the house and that is ok and within the law.

[rigsby71]

No, that would not be within the law, as you are watching tv on those boxes , which have not got a paid sub.

To watch Sky on a second box requires an Extra sub of ?10 per month & as you would not be paying this, then your acitons are Illegal.

You can use the 2nd card in the extra box as you would be paying to watch it, you would just be in breach of your contract with Sky as you would not be using their box but that is probably not against the law of the land.

[themanfromuncle]

Yes, but you might be breaking the terms of your contract with Sly.

[jfish]

Yes, but you might be breaking the terms of your contract with Sly.

once you use a non approved Sly box (Dreambox or another satellite box) - then you automatically break and T&C

[themanfromuncle]

once you use a non approved Sly box (Dreambox or another satellite box) - then you automatically break and T&C

This is possible. I'm not English and don't know their terms.

But this is not the case for most providers. I can use whatever hardware I want. My provider only certifies certain stb's.

And the thread starter lives in Cyprus so he won't have problems with Sly's terms. But I would advise him to read the terms and conditions of his provider just to be on the safe side.

[rljutter]

The fact that he lives in Cyprus and wants to watch Sly UK tv there would be in breach of the Sly T&C.

So we all agreed then lol, the only problem is cardsharing not the fact that a receiver is capable of it regardless of software, cams cclines etc

Example you purchase a receiver from me with cccam all set up an ready to go ..... This is legal

I then give you a ccline that is not valid .......... This is still legal

Someone else gives you a valid and working ccline and you use it ............ ILLEGAL

[junger]

Hold on peeps
the illegality is stealing the program without payment, anything else is surely intent. Though the latter maybe an offence, in itself it would be very difficult to prove.

[GastonJ]

Isn't stealing the action of "permanently depriving someone of their lawful goods"? You can't deprive someone of a satellite signal, so it can't be theft. However it could fall under fraudulent use on the part of the person serving the keys out.

[Ansem]

here is something to think about, it's not gospel or referring to a specific provider but interesting ;)




There is also a potential legal question involved (which has yet to be addressed) as the equipment is normally the property not of the provider but of the end user. Providers will often print on the smartcard itself that the card is the property of the signal provider, but at least one legal precedent indicates that marking "this is mine" on a card, putting it in a box with a receiver and then selling it can legally mean "this is not mine anymore". Malicious damage to receiver firmware puts providers on even shakier legal ground in the unlikely event that the matter were ever to be heard by the judiciary.
and the link if you would like a good read Pirate decryption - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_decryption)

[Grizz]

my take on it is that if somebody decides to send a signal through my property boundaries i am entitled to examine that signal to make sure there is nothing illegal on it. Bring on the judge lol

[flyingpig]

This is something that a lot of satellite users are now starting to get to grips with the terminology and the boundaries with the law in the UK.

If you are a legitimate subscriber to Sky UK for instance, and you share this sub around your own property, then you are not in any way breaking the law. You are definitely breaking your T&C's with the provider but not the law.

The reason being - when you purchase a sub it has s registered address and not say 'the front room under the TV'. It could even possibly be the person who is the valid subscriber and I think would go all the way in a court of law on some very interesting points that if 'you' subscribe and live in Liverpool, but also have a house in Southmapton - you should be able to watch and have access to that service in Southampton or Liverpool. I honestly think that could be won by any person on the points of law in the UK.

The minute that you supply someone who has not subscribed with access to that service it is illegal, and this has been proven in the UK courts.

[GastonJ]

This is something that a lot of satellite users are now starting to get to grips with the terminology and the boundaries with the law in the UK.

Snippity snip...

The reason being - when you purchase a sub it has s registered address and not say 'the front room under the TV'. It could even possibly be the person who is the valid subscriber and I think would go all the way in a court of law on some very interesting points that if 'you' subscribe and live in Liverpool, but also have a house in Southmapton - you should be able to watch and have access to that service in Southampton or Liverpool. I honestly think that could be won by any person on the points of law in the UK.


However if you liken it to a license that you buy to watch TV (aka BBC TV license) then that license is valid for a single address and any TV at that address in Liverpool, not your second house in Southampton and not your kids houses, just a single address.