Peugeot 206 1.4 S2000 KFW - starting problem

[VTS_Tibi]

Hi Mate!

There's a 206 1.4i automatic (Sagem S2000 ECU - KFW) here with a weird fault.

When starting cold for the first time it takes loads of cranking until the engine starts. If I just slightly press the accelerator pedal the engine starts "drowning". So much it nearly stalls most of the time. The exhaust gases smell of petrol, and when it's drowning it smokes a bit black!
If I just push the pedal down very gently it revs up.

But if the engine runs for 5 seconds or so then there's no problem! You can jump on the accelerator, and it won't even hesitate!
From this point the engine starts without a problem!

But leave it for half an hour with the engine off, and it does it again!


At first there were three faults in it:

-MAP sensor
-IAT sensor (inside MAP)
-ignition integrated phase detection (P1327)

I had a MAP here which I swapped over, and those two MAP related problems disappeared - eventhough the live data readings of both were OK!

But the third did not disappear, and it's still there eventhough I've done the following:

-oil change (as it was full of petrol)
-valve clearance adjustment (as it was way out)
-new plugs (as they were pretty old and used)
-cleaned the stepper motor (IAC) and the throttle body
-checked the fuel pressure when and before starting and it was fine
-I've tried a new crankshaft position sensor
-I've tried a new coilpack
-I've refreshed the ECU map with the lastest version with Peugeot Planet
-I've rewired the coilpack's wires with screened wires (as per suggestions of Peugeot Planet)

but the fault is still there, and the car still does the same thing!

Peugeot Planet suggest to check the wire at the ECU connector with the label of: F3 (32 V NR) - I'm pretty sure this is a wire marking used by the original Peugeot wiring diagram system (Sedre?)

But I only have Autodata, which identifies the 4 wires the following:

ECU connector "B"

f3 - wire 1135
g3 - wire 1151
h3 - wire 1152

Main relay terminal 5 - wire 1150

Could you please tell me which one these is the F3 (32 V NR)?
And do you have any clue what the hell could cause this starting problem?

Regards,

Tibi

[Larue]

Could you please tell me which one these is the F3 (32 V NR)?
And do you have any clue what the hell could cause this starting problem?

Regards,

Tibi
32 V NR means 32 pin black plug....
Have You checked cam timing. Is there camshaft position sensor? If there is - check signal from it. Could be blocked CAT as well.
I don't have any technical information with me at the moment, so these are just suggestions.
Cheers!

[Liteace]

check fuel pressure, make sure it not super high, reg problem or blocked return, check the injectors are not dripping fuel in when engine is not running

[VTS_Tibi]

32 V NR means 32 pin black plug....
Have You checked cam timing. Is there camshaft position sensor? If there is - check signal from it. Could be blocked CAT as well.
I don't have any technical information with me at the moment, so these are just suggestions.
Cheers!

Thanks!

Judging by the overall running the cam timing is spot on as it idles well, and pulls well and without a problem!

CAT - it starts without a problem if the engine has ran for around 5 secs, so I would say this pretty much rules out the blocked CAT issue!

AFAIK there's no cam sensor, just the ignition phase detector int he coilpack. - but will check this tomorrow anyway!





check fuel pressure, make sure it not super high, reg problem or blocked return, check the injectors are not dripping fuel in when engine is not running

fuel pressure is OK when it's cold, when it's hot, and it keeps the pressure after switching the engine off

will check the injectors!

[Liteace]

Thanks!

Judging by the overall running the cam timing is spot on as it idles well, and pulls well and without a problem!

CAT - it starts without a problem if the engine has ran for around 5 secs, so I would say this pretty much rules out the blocked CAT issue!

AFAIK there's no cam sensor, just the ignition phase detector int he coilpack. - but will check this tomorrow anyway!







fuel pressure is OK when it's cold, when it's hot, and it keeps the pressure after switching the engine off

will check the injectors!



Any updates on this, did you get it sorted ?

[zeljolaki]

A few days ago I had the same car and same problem .. error in the electrical installation... please cat original installation that goes with the engine speed sensor on the ECU (green-white wire) and put a new installation ..

[VTS_Tibi]

Any updates on this, did you get it sorted ?

Not yet! Today I've checked the following:

-cam timing is OK
-I've rewired the ignition phase detector's wire from the ECU to the coilpack with screened wire

I've cleared the only fault code present: P1327 - ignition integrated phase detection, but upon the first starting attempt it reappeared. :(

Checked all the live data, now not with Peugeot Planet, but with Tecnomotor, and everything is OK!

The car does absolutely the same as it did before. (really hard to start, and then it drowns when the accelerator is pressed a bit sharper)

[VTS_Tibi]

A few days ago I had the same car and same problem .. error in the electrical installation... please cat original installation that goes with the engine speed sensor on the ECU (green-white wire) and put a new installation ..


Do you mean - I should cut the wire which goes to the ECU from the crankshaft position sensor (as that is the engine "speed" sensor) ?

I've replaced the wire to the "camshaft sensor" - which in reality a phase detector integrated into the coilpack, but the fault is the same.

[zeljolaki]

Yes,install a new crankshaft sensor wire from the ECU, the old wire cut away ..

[alejuz]

Do you mean - I should cut the wire which goes to the ECU from the crankshaft position sensor (as that is the engine "speed" sensor) ?

I've replaced the wire to the "camshaft sensor" - which in reality a phase detector integrated into the coilpack, but the fault is the same.


hello friend, makes a measurement of motor parameters.
enters at a time.
At the end, when you go, the trace records
then you look in C: / APP / OUTILREP / TRACE / MEMO, you look for day or by the number vin.
is a txt file, post it.
regards

[VTS_Tibi]

Update!

I've fitted a new coilpack with the correct grey plug - as the car has grey plug - I've ordered it from the original part number from Peugeot.Servicebox.

Now, the P1327 - ignition integrated phase detection has disappeared, there are no faults in the ECU's memory!

Will check how it starts within the next hours!

[VTS_Tibi]

Now the car starts always, it drowns a bit when pushing the accelerator sharply right after the start - but this may be due to the spark plugs which have soaked from the previous start attempts.

btw. trace here!

[rapi]

Hi.
How do you resolve your problem ?

I have similar problem with 2000 206 1.4i on sagem kfw 2000 ecu.
Engine when cold didn't start. Timing on injectors is about 200ms when cranking , after that spark plugs were wet from gasoline.
Engine coolant sensor is good, i've checked it.
Engine starts only after ecu recognize that engine temp is over 100 celius (timing on injector is about 10ms) i must put 200ohms resistor instead of coolant sensor thermistor.

I think that timing on injector is to big, anyone have similar problem ?
Suspect to bad ECU

[VTS_Tibi]

As I did all those above the car just started behaving normally!?

BTW. Once I had a similar fault like yours with a Renault Laguna I. 2.0 16V. We had to replace the ECU to cure the problem!

[smirnoff_rules]

old post l know but l see your active , did coil sort this ? l have one coming in , the car was a none runner , rac fitted coil but car does the same as yours , havnt seen the car yet

[VTS_Tibi]

old post l know but l see your active , did coil sort this ? l have one coming in , the car was a none runner , rac fitted coil but car does the same as yours , havnt seen the car yet

Yes it was indeed the coil pack. Try and source a good one, cheap aftermarket ones are crap :)

(I am quite close now to you btw. - living in Nuneaton :) )

[chacarita]

yes all peugeot and citroen petrol engine called TU have a ignition integrated phase detection , this is a component inside the coil, that is used by ecu to known the fase of the engine, like a camshaft sensor, for example , when cylinder 1 and 4 are in top , one of then is in maximun compression ecu send ignition to both, and one of them is in max compression, and have a diferent power comsumption, so ecu knows who is , thas its how he knows who is in fase max compres, aftermarket and cheaper coils have that problem and ecu lost reference an go from secuential to semi-secuential injection, always use original coils for that engine type

[VTS_Tibi]

http://www.sidney.pro.br/ecu.pdf

page 24 explains how this phase detection works :)

[smirnoff_rules]

car is in now , coil is a delphi one with gray connector looks the right colour. l have a spare original one , l have fitted that tonight to try in the morning
this car hasnt any dtc's ? came in a few weeks back late and she said it will not start properly in the morning but it did first turn off the key lol
thanks for getting back to me

[VTS_Tibi]

car is in now , coil is a delphi one with gray connector looks the right colour. l have a spare original one , l have fitted that tonight to try in the morning
this car hasnt any dtc's ? came in a few weeks back late and she said it will not start properly in the morning but it did first turn off the key lol
thanks for getting back to me

In that case check for the obvious - battery voltage, clean battery posts, earth points (esp. on the gearbox), clean crank sensor (usually covered in crap), clean MAP, make sure the breather pipes are not broken, spark plugs new, fuel pressure and filter OK.

Also don't forget that the 8V TU has manual valve clearance adjustment. Seen a few which had no valve clearance when cold thus there was next to no compression in some or all cyilders so it did not want to start :)

[eclipse10]

Citroen Berlingo 1.4kfw error 1327 ignition phase registration, uneven idle speed.

What was checked:
Compression 12 bar with smaller deviations on individual cylinders
Lambda probe readings within the norm
No leaks in the intake manifold
Fuel pressure 3.5 bar
Ignition coil replaced from an engine that works evenly, without changes.
New ignition coil, without changes
New NGK spark plugs
The car is equipped with an LPG system, works evenly on gas.
Engine controller also replaced from a car that did not have this error.
New petrol injectors 4 pieces Valeo.
Checked injector graphs, crankshaft sensor and coil pack using an oscilloscope, everything in norm.

I have no more ideas for this car...