Mercedes key programming

[foxtec800]

hi guys,
been `playing ` in the key market for a while now but want to start with mercedes now :hmmmm2:
any advise on what tools are the best to go for that gives minimal grief ?

[ninja123]

ditto.......

Seems that this area of key programming is a big secret, I can see from no immo web that you can spend a small fortune, but there is other cheaper ways, just the info and knowledge is missing :(

ninja

[foxtec800]

as you say ninja budget can be open ended
other tools ie ak500 etc about but not sure if these are an option also fichos eis tool looks good any members response/feedback would be good
eeprom/programming knowledge not a problem, been doing that for a few years now. not too worried about spending the money... just dont want to waste it

[ray-ray]

First try finding keys that will work in your regain. Buy a tool to unlock them as new key are no sold to the public. Next find a program that has been tested with good result. You do not want to damage anything because you will have pay. Last part and the most important, finding the right customer that is willing to pay for your service. Here in the USA with the right contact at the dealer will cost you $165.00 . Kady car auction price in Anaheim Ca. I have it all collecting dust. Hope it helps

[Fallen]

There is no money in Merc keys any more Ninja. Mercedes cut the prices of keys in half.
A new key here costs $480 from the dealer, they used to be over $800.
It's a cool skill to have but you will go broke making DAS-3 keys mate.

[westville locksmiths]

Use Rosfar , for reading the EIS.
MB Key prog 2 , for reading , writing and to 21 Df keY.
MB key online.

[indienick]

There is no money in Merc keys any more Ninja. Mercedes cut the prices of keys in half.
A new key here costs $480 from the dealer, they used to be over $800.
It's a cool skill to have but you will go broke making DAS-3 keys mate.

interesting...

how long it takes to make a key?

and you tell your customer "$480 from dealer....2 or 3 days....$480 from me, today"....it it not worth the time?

[ninja123]

I have had approx 15-20 enquiries for merc keys this year, so based on that, there is no way im spending tousands on equipment just for this type, same for bmw, I do all ews but never looked into later than this as I just dont get the work.

I remember 4 years ago, lost keys on a pektron equiped mg rover would have set me back ?480 (?680 from dealers) - now I can do these with a ?60 xprog and all done in less than 20 mins - so its only a matter of time before the knowledge of key data location etc etc is learned.

I think ill wait............

ninja

[MarkPRP]

It's a hard game! :)

[aassfour]

u can start ur business in making benz keys with less then 1500 $
rosfar the red box
skc
and a nec programmer
voilaaaaaaa easy 1, 2, 3

[ray-ray]

Keys cost how much that work and are you unlocking nec chip? Time, time is money

[ninja123]

u can start ur business in making benz keys with less then 1500 $
rosfar the red box
skc
and a nec programmer
voilaaaaaaa easy 1, 2, 3


like i said my friend, everything is easy when you know how..............................................

ninja

[aassfour]

Keys cost how much that work and are you unlocking nec chip? Time, time is money
keys range from 80$ to 130$ depends on availability in market
no need to unlock them , just program directly on a used chip and it works

[ninja123]

feel free to explain a little more for us lesser humans??

ninja

[paul_12345]

I've not done any but process is;

read ezs with red rosfar clone

if using a used remote desolder / renew NEC chip with NEC programmer

make key file using SKC and the dump read from ezs

write key file to key using SKC

(for cars upto 2006 without keyless go)

[Fallen]

interesting...

how long it takes to make a key?

and you tell your customer "$480 from dealer....2 or 3 days....$480 from me, today"....it it not worth the time?

$100 for a used key
$25 for new shell and blade.
Your down $125 before you even start.
If everything goes well it will take you approx 2 hrs to complete if you are carefull.

Not sure about other people but my time is worth more than that.
I used to charge $650 for a key and it was worth it.

I would rather sit on a beach and go broke than work and go broke!

[ray-ray]

Fallen is 100% correct. Just add dark glasses & little tan lines, cold drink. There are other makes with bigger issue that will pay more.

[aassfour]

dont know why it would take 2 hours for benz key making
reading the EIS plus soldering wires takes maximum 5 to 10 minutes
if the EIS is 209 or 211 it takes maximum 2 minutes to read with the xprog cable , or 10 minutes with rosfar
key generating takes 10 minutes exactly meanwhile u prepare the nec
writing the key dump on nec plus soldering it takes 5 minutes
the whole process takes maximum 30 minutes

[TRISIEN]

I mercedes key and how do I want this motorola BLANK key OF82B thank you

[rrador]

dont know why it would take 2 hours for benz key making
reading the EIS plus soldering wires takes maximum 5 to 10 minutes
if the EIS is 209 or 211 it takes maximum 2 minutes to read with the xprog cable , or 10 minutes with rosfar
key generating takes 10 minutes exactly meanwhile u prepare the nec
writing the key dump on nec plus soldering it takes 5 minutes
the whole process takes maximum 30 minutes

You are forgetting the part that takes the longest.....I have not on worked on too many of benzes but on some of them it takes a long time to take EIS out and put back in the car....programing is the easy part.

[aassfour]

You are forgetting the part that takes the longest.....I have not on worked on too many of benzes but on some of them it takes a long time to take EIS out and put back in the car....programing is the easy part.
most my work with benz is when they bring me the EIS on its own without the car
but if the car is here it will take about 10 to 15 minutes to take out the EIS
not hard anymore if u get use to it and know wt to disassemble
u can give this job to one of ur staff

its not an easy job but at the end its not a hard job
with practise it will get much easier

[rrador]

most my work with benz is when they bring me the EIS on its own without the car
but if the car is here it will take about 10 to 15 minutes to take out the EIS
not hard anymore if u get use to it and know wt to disassemble
u can give this job to one of ur staff

its not an easy job but at the end its not a hard job
with practise it will get much easier

Well that is true I remember first couple of them I worked on it took me long time because I did not know how to disassemble it, it goes a lot quicker now.

[ninja123]

any pictures or info on EIS removal for us who have never had the joys of doing this job yet?

ninja

[labusas]

On S class remove through the radio opening. Not hard to remove radio, check youtube for that.
On C class remove bottom lid, remove side triangle panel, remove all screws there sot the whole left side of panel moves forward a bit. Now the panel will give a bit and allow pulling out at the panel below EZS. Now with little jiggle it will be able to slide down the panel bypassing damn aluminum cage. But you really have to PULL on that panel to make room... this for US cars right hand drive
Any other hints?

[aassfour]

honestly i ve learned how to take out the EIS from youtube at first, first time took me about 1 hour to take out the EIS of W203, with practise u will reach to take it out in 10 minutes, for european BENZ there is no aluminium cage so its much easier
to learn how to take it out , youtube and google are the best place to learn

[rob13572468]

guys key prices (at least here in US) just went back *up*... add to that DAS4 and things are going to get interesting....

[labusas]

Hi, Aassfour (http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/members/375958-aassfour/)
Do you force it out of the bottom for w203?

[Fallen]

dont know why it would take 2 hours for benz key making
reading the EIS plus soldering wires takes maximum 5 to 10 minutes
if the EIS is 209 or 211 it takes maximum 2 minutes to read with the xprog cable , or 10 minutes with rosfar
key generating takes 10 minutes exactly meanwhile u prepare the nec
writing the key dump on nec plus soldering it takes 5 minutes
the whole process takes maximum 30 minutes

I made a post about this in the dash section a while back explaining the while process in detail to somebody else who had also never done it.

The longer you are in the game the more realistic you are with your times.
Sometimes it takes 10 mins just to strip the old key down.

[impactops]

dont know why it would take 2 hours for benz key making
reading the EIS plus soldering wires takes maximum 5 to 10 minutes
if the EIS is 209 or 211 it takes maximum 2 minutes to read with the xprog cable , or 10 minutes with rosfar
key generating takes 10 minutes exactly meanwhile u prepare the nec
writing the key dump on nec plus soldering it takes 5 minutes
the whole process takes maximum 30 minutes

If all the customers where aware that butchers were operating on their vehicles then you'd all be sitting on a beach getting a tan.

I can tell you now, that if i took my vehicle to a place where the keys were done cheaper than the dealer under the assumption that the method of programming the key was the same as the dealer and not being informed otherwise, you won't be sitting on a beach getting a tan, you'd be behind bars rotting in hell

[rrador]

If all the customers where aware that butchers were operating on their vehicles then you'd all be sitting on a beach getting a tan.

I can tell you now, that if i took my vehicle to a place where the keys were done cheaper than the dealer under the assumption that the method of programming the key was the same as the dealer and not being informed otherwise, you won't be sitting on a beach getting a tan, you'd be behind bars rotting in hell

Wtf are you going on about

[impactops]

Wtf are you going on about

You know exactly what the zfvuck i'm on about, but the customer doesn't


for european BENZ there is no aluminium cage so its much easier
to learn how to take it out , youtube and google are the best place to learn

Make sure you have your youtube & Google diploma's on the wall so the customer can see them, now you think if the customer knew this they would bring you there $120,000 benz to get there keys done?

[ray-ray]

That why I only work with first time buyer on a mercedes. Never second or action cars , those people don't know the value of work. I have pride in my skills & my tooling. That why I get to work with all type of concept cars & engineer. I meet the design team & first hand look at there products & diagnostic tooling. I see and work on concept cars that are 10yrs. Into the future.

[impactops]

If you have to open modules up to program keys, then unfortunately it does not matter how much pride one has in their skills or tools.
Before anybody says "they can't all be done via obd alone" then i suggest they stop using google & youtube as their source of training

[aassfour]

You know exactly what the zfvuck i'm on about, but the customer doesn't



Make sure you have your youtube & Google diploma's on the wall so the customer can see them, now you think if the customer knew this they would bring you there $120,000 benz to get there keys done?
$120,000 benz car keys are only ordered by VIN from dealer ;)
youtube will show u how to take out the EIS , i dont think that will damage anything in the car , and about the customer the customer doesnt care how i have learned all he cares about is that i can deliver him his request without any problem
MANY GRADUATED PRO WITH DIPLOMA S***t they cant even tie their shoes, its not about how u have learned its about that u learned the right and u can do the job right

[siyadk]

In my region it takes 40 days for dealer to order key from germany and deliver.
Obvisouly customer prefer me or other locksmiths who can do the job in 1 to 2 days and at the end customers is happy and save time n money and me too.
So it doesnt matter if it was 120000 or half a million car..Time is money...try to think out of the box

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[aassfour]

In my region it takes 40 days for dealer to order key from germany and deliver.
Obvisouly customer prefer me or other locksmiths who can do the job in 1 to 2 days and at the end customers is happy and save time n money and me too.
So it doesnt matter if it was 120000 or half a million car..Time is money...try to think out of the box

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

out of the BOX a 120000$ car means a car after 2009 which no one can make a key for it , EXCEPT by vin number from DEALER

[impactops]

its not about how u have learned its about that u learned the right and u can do the job right

taking out the EIS is doing the job right??? :laugh:


Obvisouly customer prefer me or other locksmiths who can do the job in 1 to 2 days and at the end customers is happy and save time n money and me too.So it doesnt matter if it was 120000 or half a million car..Time is money...try to think out of the box.

Which customer is this, the dodgey car dealer that has already had the odometer wound back and now needs a second key to go with it?
I keep hearing that line "Time is money" but someone had to spend the time to work out the procedure in the first place and in some cases they have not been succefull, if they followed your analogy there would be no solutions

[impactops]

out of the BOX a 120000$ car means a car after 2009 which no one can make a key for it , EXCEPT by vin number from DEALER

Cause google says you can't? :laugh:

[aassfour]

Cause google says you can't? :laugh:

no mate cause cars are equipped with a NEC EIS ;) which no programmer can read it
unless u r a smart one and figure out how :congrats:

[aassfour]

[QUOTE=impactops;1994359]taking out the EIS is doing the job right??? :laugh:

programming a new key is doin the job RIGHT

[siyadk]

Impactops...what point r u trying to prove mite... ??
Bcoz of u there was fvdi thread banned by moderators...u wanna do this same here..

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[impactops]

Impactops...what point r u trying to prove mite... ??.

I'm sorry if i hurt your feelings fellas, but i'm pointing out facts that your not willing to accept.If the customer was aware that this procedure was being done in order to program keys they would not want in done this way.i'm not talking about your dodgey customer or dealer that needs to sell their re-birthed vehicle(s) and needs a second key, i'm talking about the legitemate customer that has falling into the trap that your method of making a key is the same as the dealer.You sit here and argue the prices should charge and compare that rate with what the dealer charges as if the method in which it is done is the same without thinking of the consequences of your actions.Most of you don't give a Fvuck cause your objective is only to make money, but i would like think that all aspects of the conversation can be discussed, even the ones your willing to ignore.

[paul_12345]

@impactops - you can see from pictures etc people post here with the low quality soldering so god only knows the state of some mcu removal etc, but you can argue how safe are a lot of obd programming too.

but I thought this forum was here to learn not clogging threads up with moral discussion, why not start a new thread on morals of auto locksmithing etc

[Fallen]

So what are you saying impact?
That only the dealer should make keys to Mercs?
Or are you trying to tell us that you can make keys without removing the eis?
Or are you saying you have some sort if dealer access?

I'm very confused by your statements.

Of course customers know the keys are not coming from the dealer, how could we get something quicker from a dealer than a dealer could....?

[rrador]

WHy do you guys bother arguing with this idiot....just ignore him he obviously has no idea what he's talking about.

[rrador]

Back on topic has anyone seen the new IR programmer from autokeys, they say it works with the keys they are selling. I ordered a programmer and one key to try it out.

[impactops]

@impactops - you can see from pictures etc people post here with the low quality soldering so god only knows the state of some mcu removal etc, but you can argue how safe are a lot of obd programming too.

That's part of the problem, these aren't people with technical skills there people that have decided they can make easy money with forums like this & google.You can honestly tell me that if the customer saw the state in which some of these were being done they would not have a problem with it? I'm not only talking about safety issue, you guys are using crude methods to program keys on expensive vehicles which are being treated as if they were hyundai's.It's not only a morality issue either, at the end of the day you think that MB is going to allow there vehicles to be dealt with in this way, of course not and what do you think there going to do?
I joined DK in 2009 and most of the conversations were technical ones not whether seller A can find a method to do it cheaper than seller B and not really wanting to know whats in the black box

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i've been told that once you do keys this way by programming the ezs and the car gets taken to a dealer to get a key done they can no longer do them


So what are you saying impact?
That only the dealer should make keys to Mercs?

What are you saying, that you tell your customers that you make the keys the same way as the dealer?
That's like saying you can do odometer correction but you require a can blocker, so if they require a can blocker you can do the odometer correction?
If you reprogram the EZS, it is the same as the dealer?


Or are you trying to tell us that you can make keys without removing the eis?
Of course there would be way of doing this without removing ezs and without dealer access, but do you think if i knew how to do it i would share it here so that the next mobile phone salesman can change their profession.That's what the forum was about when i first joined, you would of seen aswell since you joined in 2009, the discussion would of been about how to do it without removing ezs instead how much is being charged.I think you'll find now that the sellers dominate the forum rather than the techinical people.So vulcher are circulating complaining about "Time is money" waiting for somoneelse to spend the time to solve it so that they don't waste theirs

[aassfour]

.Most of you don't give a Fvuck cause your objective is only to make money, e.

seriously ??
no mate i m a locksmith just cz i love it and its a hobby , who cares about money, i m just doin the people a favor
i paid $$$$ just for the sake of fun
of course its about the money thats wt business is forr

[impactops]

of course its about the money thats wt business is forr

The forum is here to cater for your business???

[aassfour]

Of course there would be way of doing this without removing ezs and without dealer access, but do you think if i knew how to do it i would share it here so that the next mobile phone salesman can change their profession.

unless u r the MAKER OF BENZ who saves the original file by vin for each car then NO u can not make the benz key without removing the EIS.
the next thing u will say , u have figure out how to make keys for W204 and W221

[aassfour]

The forum is here to cater for your business???
i m in the forum to get help when needed and to help others when they need it and that yes it will help my business and it will help OTHERS business

[impactops]

unless u r the MAKER OF BENZ who saves the original file by vin for each car then NO u can not make the benz key without removing the EIS.
the next thing u will say , u have figure out how to make keys for W204 and W221

Your the expert mate, right?

[aassfour]

Your the expert mate, right?
no i m a NEWBIE who doesnt know wt the difference between EIS and ESL , but i manage to make $$$$$ each month

[impactops]

i m in the forum to get help when needed and to help others when they need it and that yes it will help my business and it will help OTHERS business

Who the fvuck do you think your fooling, those who do the same as you are your competetors on this forum, so anything new you learn you will not share with them, it would impede on your business.Don't change your tune now, i'll remind you again


seriously ??
no mate i m a locksmith just cz i love it and its a hobby , who cares about money, i m just doin the people a favor
i paid $$$$ just for the sake of fun
of course its about the money thats wt business is forr

[impactops]

but i manage to make $$$$$ each month

again, but your here to help people right?

[siyadk]

Just to make it clear. ..this forum is to share knowledge. ..to be specfic "Technical knowledge".
Noone can be expert in programming of all make n models. Everyone has their own expertise. So everyone share their expertise and help each other..

Of course there are few who take advantage either by leeching or selling, all you have to do is stay way from them. Thats the least I do...

[aassfour]

competetors ???? actually no :)
NONE HERE ARE IN MY AREA and EVEN not in my country
so no not competetors and yes i m here to help cz that will help me as well and get help

u know i feel u r an oldies who got his business affected after this locksmith revolution and everyone wants to be a locksmith and make money.
i know how it feels :)

[impactops]

Just to make it clear. ..this forum is to share knowledge. ..to be specfic "Technical knowledge"....

You've put your foot in it already mate, you have made it crystal clear, your here to make money from knowledge gained for free

Forget the damage control mate your too late, maybe since you are making money from the knowleged admin should charge you admission then you'll be left with youtube

[aassfour]

impactops (http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/members/88309-impactops/) chill out mate , Don't worry 'bout a thing,
'Cause every little thing gonna be all right

[impactops]

u know i feel u r an oldies who got his business affected after this locksmith revolution and everyone wants to be a locksmith and make money. i know how it feels:)

But your here to help people right?

[impactops]

impactops (http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/members/88309-impactops/) chill out mate ,
Don't worry 'bout a thing,
'Cause every little thing gonna be all right

What's happend now you don't like the game now?? so you wanted to act smart before and now you want to chill out???

[siyadk]

Why are so concerned when the members helping me or others are more than happy to help even when they know other party gain economically from their help....
This is trade forum...everyone is here to feed their families and kids...but by helping each other out.

Are that confident in future u dont need any help from others or will u deny help since u r making money out of it!!

[impactops]

Why are so concerned when the members helping me or others are more than happy to help even when they know other party gain economically from their help....
This is trade forum...everyone is here to feed their families and kids...but by helping each other out.

Are that confident in future u dont need any help from others or will u deny help since u r making money out of it!!

I suggest you go back and read the threads again, i was pointing out the concerns with the method used to program keyd, but your buddy was gloating about how much $$$$ he was making and then decided to do a back flip when i told him the forum is not about his business.Since you made a point about this being a trade forum, let me remind you and your newbie mate that a couple of years back when admin decided to remove the software section all the members like yourselves (who are here to help people) responded by saying that this will affect our business, Now what do you think admin's response to that was??

[aassfour]

What's happend now you don't like the game now?? so you wanted to act smart before and now you want to chill out???


i m always chilled mate :)

[impactops]

i m always chilled mate :)

i've course you are, you've got the $$$$, your pretending to help what else do you need

[aassfour]

your buddy was gloating about how much $$$$ he was making and then decided to do a back flip when i told him the forum is not about his business.S
of course i m happy about my $$$$ at the end of the day its wt everyone wants in this forum , in other forum in any business every human been , it wt we all wants, and we do wtever we can to get it , and since i have a business i will be doin my best to increase my INCOME by getting resources and tools and ideas to improve my business, if i get FREE resourses that would be great , if i need a programmer or any tool , i will search for the easiest safest tool, to serve quicker, being a PRO in electronic or an amateur i dont care as long as i can deliver a service and my customers are happy and i can make my $$$$$, and thx to this FORUM and the others 20 forums which i belong too and thx to GOOGLE, and Thx to Youtube , and THX to the original TOOLS and THX to clone tools i m able to boost my business and feed my family and get wealthy life.

[aassfour]

well the biggest prove that i m helping others is the THANKS i have :) i ve been Thanked 29 Times in 22 Posts since 1 month :) and u been Thanked 88 Times in 61 Posts within 4 years :D :D :D

[impactops]

well the biggest prove that i m helping others is the THANKS i have :) i ve been Thanked 29 Times in 22 Posts since 1 month :) and u been Thanked 88 Times in 61 Posts within 4 years :D :D :D

All you've done is proven how much of a dumb Fvuck you are, but as long as there aware what you true intentions are that's fine with me.

[aassfour]

All you've done is proven how much of a dumb Fvuck you are, but as long as there aware what you true intentions are that's fine with me.
:D :D :D chill man :D why so offensive ? is ur business down ?

[impactops]

:D :D :D chill man :D why so offensive ? is ur business down ?

I can tell you now Captain, others can tell you also, i can be going all night so keep it coming if you want, but shouldn't you be feeding your family?

[aassfour]

I can tell you now Captain, others can tell you also, i can be going all night so keep it coming if you want, but shouldn't you be feeding your family?

actually no i have a VIP PARTY to attend since i have $$$$ :D

[impactops]

actually no i have a VIP PARTY to attend since i have $$$$ :D

Time is money, how could you be going to a party

[aassfour]

i will be socializing with people ... potential future customers :P

[impactops]

i will be socializing with people ... potential future customers :P

Make sure you lie to them, so you can get the $$$$

[siyadk]

This is how the fvdi thread got shut down by moderators. Lets say ignore those who complain and focus on foxtech topic n query...

One small doubt from my side " for what exact is ficho esl tool used for?" Can someone enlighten me?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[rrador]

another one bites the dust :)

[aassfour]

Make sure you lie to them, so you can get the $$$$
where did i lie ? did i a say i m an electronic engineer or i m an expert ? :D :D
all i said is i m an amateur who makes keys and my customers are happy and my wallet is getting bigger :D :D
honesty all the way :welcoming::welcoming:

[impactops]

where did i lie ? did i a say i m an electronic engineer or i m an expert ? :D :D
all i said is i m an amateur who makes keys and my customers are happy and my wallet is getting bigger :D :D
honesty all the way :welcoming::welcoming:

Your not here to help people that's the lie captain, as long as they know that your a lieing, decieving, dishonest person willing to do anything for a buck

[chriskross]

This thread has now no more to do with mb key programming!

Maybe it is better to close it!! And open a new thread for personal discussions and problems.

[impactops]

This thread has now no more to do with mb key programming!
Maybe it is better to close it!! And open a new thread for personal discussions and problems.

Show me anywhere on the thread where there was any technical discussion about MB key programming rather than sellers discussing how much they should charge, after what has been revealed and where the forum is going explain to me why anyone with knowledge that spans far more that what you find on the web would want to share it?

[z786]

can you tell me 1 business out there that doesnt lie to make money?

[rob13572468]

can you tell me 1 business out there that doesnt lie to make money?
polygraph manufacturers.... :) anyway can we get back to the NEC chip in the ezs... im pretty sure the debugger read command will work but you have to re-enable the security fuse on the die...

[impactops]

can you tell me 1 business out there that doesnt lie to make money?

I'm not talking about businesses, i'm talking about DK.You can sit back and honestly tell me that the forum is the same as what it was when you first joined?
That the sole purpose of the members here is to lie, steal, cheat in order to get information?
That the amount of contributions made by members now is the same as back then?


anyway can we get back to the NEC chip in the ezs... im pretty sure the debugger read command will work but you have to re-enable the security fuse on the die...

Get back to the NEC chip???? The first page of the thread began by sellers stating that it is not worth doing MB keys, but i'm pretty sure they'll be happy for you to work it out so they can sell it.You are the perfect example, joined 2011, 10 posts to your name, what do the numbers stand for "I don't give a fvuck"?

I'm afraid gentlemen that the forum is not what it used to be, so the sellers are going to have to learn a new skill other than selling, cause unless you get some poor bastard that's been fooled into thinking that their contributing for the greater good of the forum then the sellers will be sitting on the side lines for a while for this one

[Fallen]

Impact, you seem to be confused here mate, very confused.

I don't see any sellers in this thread, sellers are the people who we buy our gear off so we can do our work.

Most people involved in this thread are in the industry relating to automotive locksmithing.

We charge for our services, that's how we make out money.
I work to make money, that's how it works.

Making keys to Mercs is not profitable in my country.

End of story.

Enjoy your weekend all.

[impactops]

We charge for our services, that's how we make out money.
I work to make money, that's how it works.

Then why are you bothering to come onto the forum then???
To find a solution that is provided for free so that you can use that information to make money????
What about the person that provides it for free??? He's the idiot for providing it for free???
So if he doesn't provide the information for free, then you'd all not join cause there is nothing you can gain to use to make money???
What happens if admin charged you a fee to enter the forum, you would pay that fee in order to see if there is information you can use to make money???
"You've got it all wrong impact it's about discussing which products work so we know what to buy" i hesr you say
Then why not hear it from the horses mouth and have the manufacturer on the forum answering questions like flyobd???

http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/f177/fvdi-what-working-what-not-333128/index11.html post 155


That's why

From my understanding from day one, the garage section was open so that those who have workshops may be able to share information to help to those with problems, it was not about half brain dimwits with less intelligence than those provding the solutions to all of sudden change their profession so they can make money off it, that's why you don't see solutions anymore.

[ninja123]

IMPACTOPS - you got out the wrong side of the bed mate???

Just let members have their discussion here without abusing them - we have all learnt from here and most of us help others too.

looks like we will all have to pm each other with skype names to continue this subject :)

ninja

[rob13572468]

Get back to the NEC chip???? The first page of the thread began by sellers stating that it is not worth doing MB keys, but i'm pretty sure they'll be happy for you to work it out so they can sell it.You are the perfect example, joined 2011, 10 posts to your name, what do the numbers stand for "I don't give a fvuck"?

I'm afraid gentlemen that the forum is not what it used to be, so the sellers are going to have to learn a new skill other than selling, cause unless you get some poor bastard that's been fooled into thinking that their contributing for the greater good of the forum then the sellers will be sitting on the side lines for a while for this one
sorry, maybe I didn't express my intentions properly; im an engineer and I work specifically with Mercedes technology (im the guy that invented the Mercedes remote starter).. I don't post a lot because I am interested in discussing technology and I don't see much of that going on here.. If anyone wants to have those discussions I will post a lot more; I don't have an attitude and im actually a pretty cordial guy. If anyone wants to talk about mb tech that would be great.. if not that's ok too, no hard feelings... I just like solving problems (and this NEC one seems to be one that needs to be solved..)

[aassfour]

sorry, maybe I didn't express my intentions properly; im an engineer and I work specifically with Mercedes technology (im the guy that invented the Mercedes remote starter).. I don't post a lot because I am interested in discussing technology and I don't see much of that going on here.. If anyone wants to have those discussions I will post a lot more; I don't have an attitude and im actually a pretty cordial guy. If anyone wants to talk about mb tech that would be great.. if not that's ok too, no hard feelings... I just like solving problems (and this NEC one seems to be one that needs to be solved..)


is that u ? Worlds first remote start for Mercedes with Smartkey - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryOjtGoDs_k)

[rob13572468]

is that u ? Worlds first remote start for Mercedes with Smartkey - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryOjtGoDs_k)
yes that me...

[Fallen]

[QUOTE=impactops;1995184]Then why are you bothering to come onto the forum then???

What happens if admin charged you a fee to enter the forum, you would pay that fee in order to see if there is information you can use to make money???


http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/f177/fvdi-what-working-what-not-333128/index11.html post 155


I come to this forum to learn and teach, it seems you come to preach(and to rhyme, check my flow y'all).

Charge to enter the site?
I GAVE to enter the site, have been a forum supporter since the beginning.


Pull your head out if your bottom mate and get with the program.

[hauwkee]

By the way nice job rob you are pretty talented the smartkey starter is a MB feature or Add on
you probably can help us here solving the NEC processor reading i not engineer but i m passionate with this kind of stuff love it
Also we have to emphasis the MB attitude with key replacement they won t it to be fast and affordable because they want PPl to come to dealership to engage in dicussion do update in their database when u bring u car to dealer there is much more than key they can sell you remember they make the wholecar
i work with about 15 used dealership they do not make extra key for MB BMW Audi Saab even other car only when all key lost and sometime buy the car AS is no key
they even give me remote and used key the bought on Ebay junk yard other car
this is getting worse worse some of dealer are so cheap and complaining all the time
but still like to know how to make it virtually at least for knowledge purpose
then if u can make $ why not that our trade we locksmith

[aassfour]

yes that me...

dats an amazing job , is it possible to reply ur pm :D

cheers mate

[aassfour]

nice job rob you are pretty talented the smartkey starter is a MB feature or and add on after


from wt i saw its an ADD On , but i wonder if it works with petrol , cs as they state it works with hybrid and diesel

[rob13572468]

from wt i saw its an ADD On , but i wonder if it works with petrol , cs as they state it works with hybrid and diesel

yes it does.

[rob13572468]

dats an amazing job , is it possible to reply ur pm :D

cheers mate
thanks. ill check it now.

[rob13572468]

By the way nice job rob you are pretty talented the smartkey starter is a MB feature or Add on
you probably can help us here solving the NEC processor reading i not engineer but i m passionate with this kind of stuff love it
Also we have to emphasis the MB attitude with key replacement they won t it to be fast and affordable because they want PPl to come to dealership to engage in dicussion do update in their database when u bring u car to dealer there is much more than key they can sell you remember they make the wholecar
i work with about 15 used dealership they do not make extra key for MB BMW Audi Saab even other car only when all key lost and sometime buy the car AS is no key
they even give me remote and used key the bought on Ebay junk yard other car
this is getting worse worse some of dealer are so cheap and complaining all the time
but still like to know how to make it virtually at least for knowledge purpose
then if u can make $ why not that our trade we locksmith

the key situation is interesting: Mercedes is moving to FSB4 now.. some of the models for 2014 have it already and one of the features dealers will have now is the ability to take a blank key and code it to the vehicle on the spot (rather than order it..) also dealer prices (at least here in the US) for keys have gone back up so there are definitely some interesting opportunities.. I am very interested in the prototype tool that was talked about here maybe 2 years ago.. they supposedly demonstrated an EZS read of the NEC chip via OBD but the developer never released the product... I have been wanting to talk with the developer but there was some question as to who actually did the work (or maybe I just missed it..)

[aassfour]

the key situation is interesting: Mercedes is moving to FSB4 now.. some of the models for 2014 have it already and one of the features dealers will have now is the ability to take a blank key and code it to the vehicle on the spot (rather than order it..) also dealer prices (at least here in the US) for keys have gone back up so there are definitely some interesting opportunities.. I am very interested in the prototype tool that was talked about here maybe 2 years ago.. they supposedly demonstrated an EZS read of the NEC chip via OBD but the developer never released the product... I have been wanting to talk with the developer but there was some question as to who actually did the work (or maybe I just missed it..)

the person u r looking for is MEHACO and he is 5 minutes away from me :D he is the creature of SKC, on his website u can see that he is stating that he is able to make keys for W204 and W221. i know that his process takes 2 to 3 days to deliver the key , how it is done ? i cant say ... but i doubt that he found a way to read the nec .... again not sure

[rob13572468]

the person u r looking for is MEHACO and he is 5 minutes away from me :D he is the creature of SKC, on his website u can see that he is stating that he is able to make keys for W204 and W221. i know that his process takes 2 to 3 days to deliver the key , how it is done ? i cant say ... but i doubt that he found a way to read the nec .... again not sure
Interesting.. I have heard the same thing: that you send the EZS and he extracts the key hash info which would indicate that there is a way to pull data.. This indicates an exploit is available (there usually are in embedded electronics)

[aassfour]

how he is doin the keys no one knows yet, he is not revealing the secret, if there is a secret or if he get support to deliver the key from one of the worlwide dealers. or maybe he figured it out but he s keeping the cookies for himself only :)

[aassfour]

i just wonder if he figured it out to read it on table or in his garage why the process has to take 3 days to make a key ?? :indecisiveness:

[rob13572468]

i just wonder if he figured it out to read it on table or in his garage why the process has to take 3 days to make a key ?? :indecisiveness:

yes. I wonder if he has a dealer contact that helps or not... is it a 2-3 day wait from the time he physically receives the EZS? on his site they even say in the release that they can recode the ezs to another car... also if you look at the newest tool it shows the ability to dump older EZS using CAN only (so no desoldering or using a debugger) and this means there is a code bug in the EZS which allows access to normally protected data...

[aassfour]

yes 2 to 3 days from the time he receives the EZS
about the new tool he released it couple of weeks ago and that is a pretty cool tool , joined work with his russian partner
http://mercedesinstrument.com/catalog/#!/~/product/category=3040229&id=13248558

[MarkPRP]

I contacted Hani, (Mehaco) and asked about reading full data from Ezs by bod. Answer was No!

But, at a show over here in the UK I saw (with my own eyes) Hani and Mitri make a key for NEC with special device with software similar to avdi.




Mark

[aassfour]

I contacted Hani, (Mehaco) and asked about reading full data from Ezs by bod. Answer was No!

But, at a show over here in the UK I saw (with my own eyes) Hani and Mitri make a key for NEC with special device with software similar to avdi.





Mark
we spoked to hani and he said that the service of making keys for W204 and W221 is now on hold and not doin it anymore ........ I WONDER WHY :shame::shame:

[aassfour]

I contacted Hani, (Mehaco) and asked about reading full data from Ezs by bod. Answer was No!

But, at a show over here in the UK I saw (with my own eyes) Hani and Mitri make a key for NEC with special device with software similar to avdi.




Mark
what u saw in the exhibition was it somethin like that ? http://mercedesinstrument.com/catalo...29&id=13248558 (http://mercedesinstrument.com/catalog/#!/~/product/category=3040229&id=13248558)

[ninja123]

you lot are out of my depth now, ill log back in in a few years or so!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ninja

[MarkPRP]

what u saw in the exhibition was it somethin like that ? http://mercedesinstrument.com/catalo...29&id=13248558 (http://mercedesinstrument.com/catalog/#!/~/product/category=3040229&id=13248558)

No, a lot more like the avdi soft.

I have the. IR key tool from here - cartools.info - but it will only read all hashes and ssid but no password through IR. you can also use it as a. Green key/grey key...


Mark

[rob13572468]

I contacted Hani, (Mehaco) and asked about reading full data from Ezs by bod. Answer was No!

But, at a show over here in the UK I saw (with my own eyes) Hani and Mitri make a key for NEC with special device with software similar to avdi.



Mark

when you saw the demo did you actually see them plug into an NEC EZS or did they just show the key making part?

[MarkPRP]

So. From start to finish.

Bench setup from a w221 including ISM, 7g valve chest, gateway, Ecu (I think it was 272 v6 Ecu) and EZS all connected to star.

First thing they showed us was it removing drive authorisation and renewing ISM and 7g then plugging star back in and showing it released then learning back in.

Then, they went on to reading the ezs. Mitri unplugged the EZS and opened the back to show us the NEC chip (Havana I think) then plugged it back in and read the complete data. Uploaded this into SKC and calculated keys. Hani then programmed a NEC chrome key with the data and inserted the key 6 times as usual and then was able to turn the key. They then opened up the ezs and showed us again that it was still the NEC chipset!

While I was there I met up with Boris from NoImmo. He had just finished a prototype BE key (new style chrome key readable/write able/erase able via IR) He got Hani to program his key to it aswell and it worked perfectly.

So, unless they are some sort of magicians and did a good trick then its possible. BUT, even if they used an st12 9s12 w164 switch how did they read it through OBD?...

Rob, is Noah your business partner then? :)

Mark

[paul_12345]

So. From start to finish.

Bench setup from a w221 including ISM, 7g valve chest, gateway, Ecu (I think it was 272 v6 Ecu) and EZS all connected to star.

First thing they showed us was it removing drive authorisation and renewing ISM and 7g then plugging star back in and showing it released then learning back in.

Then, they went on to reading the ezs. Mitri unplugged the EZS and opened the back to show us the NEC chip (Havana I think) then plugged it back in and read the complete data. Uploaded this into SKC and calculated keys. Hani then programmed a NEC chrome key with the data and inserted the key 6 times as usual and then was able to turn the key. They then opened up the ezs and showed us again that it was still the NEC chipset!

While I was there I met up with Boris from NoImmo. He had just finished a prototype BE key (new style chrome key readable/write able/erase able via IR) He got Hani to program his key to it aswell and it worked perfectly.

So, unless they are some sort of magicians and did a good trick then its possible. BUT, even if they used an st12 9s12 w164 switch how did they read it through OBD?...

Rob, is Noah your business partner then? :)

Mark

who's to say they really read it there??

false read button when really they have the data on there computer??

[aassfour]

who's to say they really read it there??

false read button when really they have the data on there computer??

reading by OBD is not true, at Hani's Workshop they r still using the old method when it comes to key programming, they take out the EIS and go inside Their Magic room and read the EIS and generate the key then plug back the EIS and assemble the car and test the key . SAME METHOD LIKE EVERYONE ELSE

[PierreTheron]

As certain good reputeable member have said . Not possible to make good money out off these keys .

But then also Mercedes wants to make good money out off repLacing ecu eis and keys ....
that is where we come in with a somewhat sligLtly bless cheaper solution.. That is in some cases. possible i sAY ..

[hauwkee]

As certain good reputeable member have said . Not possible to make good money out off these keys .

But then also Mercedes wants to make good money out off repLacing ecu eis and keys ....
that is where we come in with a somewhat sligLtly bless cheaper solution.. That is in some cases. possible i sAY ..
only when dealer want to replace a bench of part we get those calls
no much benz key around maybe other place in world better since benz is the favorite taxi in many country

[MarkPRP]

who's to say they really read it there??

false read button when really they have the data on there computer??

And where did they get the data from in the FIRST place then???? asked Mercedes for it?:nevreness:

They also said they could change the mileage in the EZS no problem!

[paul_12345]

And where did they get the data from in the FIRST place then???? asked Mercedes for it?:nevreness:

They also said they could change the mileage in the EZS no problem!

Quite simple its clear they can read from ezs but who's to say they didn't get a dump before the show, then have a fake read button.

Maybe they thought they was close to reading obd and wanted to drum up some interest then found out they couldn't do it obd

[MarkPRP]

SO you think they can read NEC by BDM/Like st12?

[paul_12345]

maybe they have to open it, but all they needed was a correct dump already by whatever method they are using.

or maybe they did read by obd but they might of had to do something else to the ezs first to enable it and they can't find a way to do it all obd

[rob13572468]

So. From start to finish.

Bench setup from a w221 including ISM, 7g valve chest, gateway, Ecu (I think it was 272 v6 Ecu) and EZS all connected to star.

First thing they showed us was it removing drive authorisation and renewing ISM and 7g then plugging star back in and showing it released then learning back in.

Then, they went on to reading the ezs. Mitri unplugged the EZS and opened the back to show us the NEC chip (Havana I think) then plugged it back in and read the complete data. Uploaded this into SKC and calculated keys. Hani then programmed a NEC chrome key with the data and inserted the key 6 times as usual and then was able to turn the key. They then opened up the ezs and showed us again that it was still the NEC chipset!

While I was there I met up with Boris from NoImmo. He had just finished a prototype BE key (new style chrome key readable/write able/erase able via IR) He got Hani to program his key to it aswell and it worked perfectly.

So, unless they are some sort of magicians and did a good trick then its possible. BUT, even if they used an st12 9s12 w164 switch how did they read it through OBD?...

Rob, is Noah your business partner then? :)

Mark

noah actually works for me... so yes this is interesting because it indicates a read over OBD which indicates that there is a software exploit buried somewhere in the code for FSB3.. this is actually fairly common with automotive embedded software as the focus is always on reliability first and security second. the way such an exploit is used is to first pull all of the code out of the chip... this means dumping the full firmware (as opposed to just the key hash data) and to start disassembling the code to see what FSB is actually doing... then once that is done you can look at the normal ways the EZS is accessed, for instance using the firmware update provisions that are present on almost all modules nowadays and design the exploit to take advantage of some sort of bug in the code... as far as using a BDM or programmer to read from the chip there are a number of ways to get the BDM to read even if there isn't a read command present (although there almost always is... sometimes they are just disabled on the die but can be re-enabled using various invasive techniques. the real question is if the method they used is repeatable and practical and why they haven't commercialized the technology...

[rob13572468]

Also: some info on the NEC chip (so we can all stop calling it "the NEC chip") the processor is V850ES/GB1 also called "VENUS". it was designed for automotive use and AFAIK this is the only instance of its use that I can find. the most likely part number is 70F3241 which is the 2X CAN version..it was planned for commercial use but likely Mercedes put in a custom order for this chip specifically for the EZS.

[MarkPRP]

203177

This one says Spanien, 0725KP006

[aassfour]

its not only Venus , i ve seen ireland, havana, new york ..... these processors come under many names

[rob13572468]

203177

This one says Spanien, 0725KP006

yes I believe that's the foundry code for that particular run of chips.. when a tier one manufacturer does a large run of chips they have the option to leave off model info in an effort to make reverse engineering more difficult... (just a bit though:) )

[rob13572468]

its not only Venus , i ve seen ireland, havana, new york ..... these processors come under many names
venus is the processor code name... the names you see on the physical chip is the foundry code or run code...

[rob13572468]

As certain good reputeable member have said . Not possible to make good money out off these keys .

But then also Mercedes wants to make good money out off repLacing ecu eis and keys ....
that is where we come in with a somewhat sligLtly bless cheaper solution.. That is in some cases. possible i sAY ..
Mercedes primary concern with this system is to keep vehicle theft under control... (although the don't mind making all that money on parts replacement either..) their security is actually pretty good for the industry... In the next 5 years a lot of vehicle manufacturers are going to learn some hard and expensive lessons relating to security design (very much the way the sat tv companies learned this lesson in the 90's)

[MarkPRP]

Mercedes primary concern with this system is to keep vehicle theft under control... (although the don't mind making all that money on parts replacement either..) their security is actually pretty good for the industry... In the next 5 years a lot of vehicle manufacturers are going to learn some hard and expensive lessons relating to security design (very much the way the sat tv companies learned this lesson in the 90's)

BMW already have over here in the UK!

[paul_12345]

it wasn't that long ago a 10 year old could steal a car with a screw driver, I think we've become a bit naive in thinking cars are 100% secure and the kind of people spending 10k on a tool to steal a car are the ones that would steal your key if they had no other choice anyway.

[MarkPRP]

I've just been told there is a tool about that can read full contents (or enough to make a key) for the w204 eis. it reads the data direct through IR in the key slot. Don't know where to get it from though!

[rob13572468]

I've just been told there is a tool about that can read full contents (or enough to make a key) for the w204 eis. it reads the data direct through IR in the key slot. Don't know where to get it from though!

I heard about this as well but same thing I don't know who makes it... I will say that the new mehaco mb tool does show in the instructions that it can read the Motorola based ezs thru OBD over CAN... also it talks about using the IR port but its not entirely clear how or why or for what purpose because the instructions are in broken English...

[MarkPRP]

Ok. So with my IR tool I can read all 8 key hashes, sonder hash and ssid. But how can I get the Password! This is the only thing stopping me now!

[u.s]

Do you have extended features in the software that allow you to send custom commands via IR ?

[MarkPRP]

Yes.

But what command to send? I have experimented a few times but to no avail..

[aassfour]

w204 key programming can be done but its still a secret on how to read the EIS

[MarkPRP]

Yep, but only sometimes. it is hit and miss..

[wsc]

i suppose then the gay is the "Dspeed" ......

[MarkPRP]

(Rio)Dspeed who?

It's actually very easy if you know how..

[wsc]

maybe it is , but i am one of them who doesn't :)

[MarkPRP]

does anyone know the specific file size of the NEC eeprom area?

would be good to know!

[user2468]

i think eeprom size is 160 bytes

[giovani]

hi.

maybe, we can find NEC ic in the EZS,
can confirm nec 70f3241 ???
but what is placed in the ELV W204,
I believe to be 78f9234.
I have minicube and does not write ic, but the datasheet is the same pinout.

can anyone talk about this?

[clearly]

Now All FSB3 Lost keys are possible.



Won't be long now for FSB4.

[aassfour]

Now All FSB3 Lost keys are possible.


Won't be long now for FSB4.

why i find it hard to believe ? any trusted members with results ?

[gokey]

please someone check this eis/ezs dump
is someting wrong ?
after program new key index , window wiper dont work

tx

[lpf01]

seems a SAM module fault for me.
Was the car jump started before that happens?

[gokey]

car not recognize the key and I make a new key