Polo 9N3 find PIN and key programming issues with AVDI

[autoTkey]

Car is Volkswagen Polo 9N3(facelift, year 2008). Dash is Magneti Marelli with 9s12H256 inside. ECU is Siemens VDO SIMOS 9.1.
Problem is I can't get it working ...this damn thing(both Polo and AVDI)!
The task was to change KM and add a new transponder.
OK, I plugged in the AVDI with a smile on my face thinking it will all be over in seconds ...BUT noooo!

AVDI can't connect to dash and it can't connect to computer(when I click the read button it starts reading the ECU and after some seconds it gives a fatal error and the program force closes itself blaming it on Microsoft).
I tried all options in K-line module - nothing. So I decide to do it directly. Did the odo with UPA(but of course it didn't work from the first time - the correct recipe is to lift VDD and RESET pin and read at 6000Khz oscilator). So at this stage I have the eeprom of the dash and put it in Dump Tool of AVDI and it extracts some PIN. Then I turn on Key Learning and put car on Ignition and the 30 minutes waiting began(had to take the headlights fuses out because they are always ON and the battery almost died). After 30 minutes I try programming with the PIN but nothing. And what a surprise - It just deleted the single working key I had!

I'm posting the dump so someone could confirm to me if it really is 1791, please.
299247

Later I thought "maybe I must select manually the ECU type in Engine Control Unit module" but laptop and car battery are already quite empty so I decided to come and ask for advice because maybe I have one last shot before I need to change the battery. So can someone give me the exact steps as for dummies for reading the ECU(if the PIN is not correct) and mostly for programming the keys, please?

[H.Wessel]

Pin 100% 01791
If you have VCDS you can program key with it.

[autoTkey]

Could that 0 in front of the 1791 be the problem? I entered just 1791.

[autofan1965]

When it lost already coded keys its mean that pin was accepted. When you have tango then make keys with tango and write manually dump back. Or just give me your keys id and i prepare correct dump for you and data for transponder.

[autoTkey]

I don't have Tango. Where will I program this dump? In dash ?

[autofan1965]

When you post me id i give you new dump and values what you should write on new transponder. When you write dump readed with upa back to dash, dash should recognize first key again.

[aassfour]

i get this issue a lot with the 9N
here is wt u need to do , forget the avdi , u need another programmer , like MVP , SKP , T300 , etc ...
put the ignition on with a battery booster for about 1 hour not 30 minutes and then go into programming, it should work if nothing wrong with car

[autoTkey]

autofan1965 - you mean keys are stored in dash? I can give you ID tomorrow. I already closed....

aassfour - would china clone T300 or SBB work?
And you just answered my next question - I was wondering if 30 minutes are enough... Last time I gave it 35 minutes but immo kept on blinking... And I guess there is no way to check if I have waited enough.

[autoTkey]

autofan1965 - here are both transponders:
https://mega.co.nz/#!AshhQIoJ!TQ6YC-D8Bgb2BVwShDHYcOVv1Yp4ol0tyVC4usfco7M

I'll appreciate the help!

[rapidlocksmiths]

ive had this often on the polo 9N , after reading pin you have to switch ignition off then on , wait 40 minutes to an hour , do not switch off ignition , then program keys

[simaservis1108]

VW,Seat with M.M 9S12 dash can't be read via OBD :D

Almost won a fully loaded AVDI by a bet,but the other chickened out of the bet(he wasn't 100% sure).

[yugo45]

I think this is a same dash as New beetle 2006 and up with immo 4, so forgot about AVDI or VCDS, they will erase all keys and never be able to program new or old keys.

If you save original eeprom with working key, just write it back and old key will work.

[autoTkey]

I was also thinking of that, as the battery is on the flattest possible level already.

The question is - is there a way to add the second key by EEPROM ?
I found where the first key is programmed and I think I know where to write the second key, but is there any data I should write in the key itself?

[autofan1965]

Post ID from both transponders and i give you important data or try first solution with ignition on because it is easier.

[autoTkey]

Post ID from both transponders and i give you important data or try first solution with ignition on because it is easier.
I already did last night but I guess you didn't see it.
BTW I can confirm the car starts when rewrite the backup dump with the original key, phewww...

autofan1965 - here are both transponders:
https://mega.co.nz/#!AshhQIoJ!TQ6YC-D8Bgb2BVwShDHYcOVv1Yp4ol0tyVC4usfco7M

I'll appreciate the help!
Original key ID is A5 C9 B3 D0
New key ID is 08 E8 78 75

Personally I prefer the EEPROM method as it is more reliable... I don't have the battery to wait 1 hour.

[Bllinda]

Build Battery charger or the battery is another.
There are two keys visible A5 C9..A5 D1 .. And everything will be fine.

[autoTkey]

autofan1965 - I posted the IDs on the first page and I wanted to send them on PM but seems your inbox is full...

[autoTkey]

Is there any one with Tango who could help? Looks like it's the only tool to support adding keys by EEPROM for that car.

[yugo45]

I already did last night but I guess you didn't see it.
BTW I can confirm the car starts when rewrite the backup dump with the original key, phewww...

Original key ID is A5 C9 B3 D0
New key ID is 08 E8 78 75

Personally I prefer the EEPROM method as it is more reliable... I don't have the battery to wait 1 hour.
Do you have key tag along with AVDI?
If you do you can do it direct in eeprom .

The problem is new Key ID can be add in dump , but CS form cluster has to be write to new key to make it work.

[igorr]

yes it can

[simaservis1108]

What seems to be your problem friend?
Give me the new key ID you want to write,and I will give you CS to write back.

If you have EFfI this job is finished in 5 minutes.

You have 2 keys programmed:

A5 D1 42 AE is the 1st key.
A5 C9 B3 D0 is the 2nd key.

Your CS is:
19 25 44 59 75 92 B1

[autofan1965]

Write this file and data from PM to transponder not already used(08 E8 78 75).

299469

[obdsystems]

sometimes avdi automated key programming method fails where u have flashing immo light - so do key adaption (see rostek website) either with vcds or avdi.
- never lost keys but experienced rapidlocksmith's problem.

Else, if avdi is directly reading/writing dash then yeah wise to save read dump just-in-case :)


glad u got it going autoTkey
Its not easy make a few bucks in this game lol

[autoTkey]

So here's what happened in the end. I really tried to program it one more time with second battery attached. It allowed access after 1 hour and at least it didn't erase the original key but still didn't want to program the new one. So I'm actually blaming the AVDI on this one. I guess this is one of those cars they say they support but somehow they don't actually support this particular modification(you know.. with MM 9s12h256 dash and petrol Siemens SIMOS 9.1 ECU).

Many thanks to all of you. And special thanks to autofan1965 and his Tango. Only with the data he sent me it was possible to make the new key work!

yugo45 - Yes, I have Key tag tool but there's no support for this dash/immo in there. All that AVDI managed to do successfully was to get the PIN by the Dump tool in VAG section(which happened to be obsolete in the end).

simaservis1108 - Yes, EFFI is my faithful companion, but unfortunately it also does not support this dash/immo. How did you extract this CS? Or maybe you know it is in line 400 in the dump? I tried to write this CS from the Write CS option(as VAG) in Megamos Tab in Effi but immo was still blinking. Maybe this is not the CS. Immo only stopped blinking after writing the "Word 9..4" data which Mr. Autofan1965 sent me.

[simaservis1108]

I drive the car with this dash so I know.
You needed to write is as OLD type not VW.
Also,immo would blink if transponder wasn't locked,and car would start.

Only if you lock it,the immo wouldn't blink.

All immo 3 types you write as OLD type.
Immo 4 are divided by groups VW,Seat,Skoda and Audi.

[autoTkey]

I didn't know that. It would have saved me a lot of time. Everyday we learn something, I guess... The car is still here but I'm not going to test it because I don't want to risk it. Since you drive such car I'm 100% sure this solution will also work. There's just one more thing I'm not sure - how did you know where to find CS?

And one more thing - with the data from autofan1965 the immo is not blinking anymore while it's still not locked. It happened to me a few times the immo to blink but allow the car to start with the new key. It only worked for a few minutes after I started the car with the original key. After few minutes it blocks the new key(and instantly if you lock/unlock the car with the remote) if the immo is blinking.

[davorOS]

hi
I don't see problem on this car do it with AVDI as I did about 20 of this that have MM dash,also I have do 5 that daler couldn't do it after lost key
first of all this car don't have CS as it is system 1 car you need normal ID48 transponder, so with AVDI You need to enter in channel 25(immobilizer) not to 17 dashboard,

if lost key,on few I had to programme dash first then programme key

so enter to channel 25,enter pin,go to adaptation channel 50 and programme immo function then go back to channel 1 and programme key,

no need to wait for lockout

[Bllinda]

Do you want to say that this car is impossible to do with VCDs?
It will be necessary AVDi?

[davorOS]

hi
I do it with AVDI by entering channel numbers,not by selecting key programming function so You should be able to do it with VCDS

in anyway this car is on K-line not CAN so it is same as any old VAG that use immobilzer in channel 25 or immobox

only problem I hear is that dealers have problem with lost key when do it online

[chriskross]

yes it is with vcds possible with key learning function it was also not possible to adapt it, i had vdo crypto cluster.

[autofan1965]

hi
I don't see problem on this car do it with AVDI as I did about 20 of this that have MM dash,also I have do 5 that daler couldn't do it after lost key
first of all this car don't have CS as it is system 1 car you need normal ID48 transponder, so with AVDI You need to enter in channel 25(immobilizer) not to 17 dashboard,

if lost key,on few I had to programme dash first then programme key

so enter to channel 25,enter pin,go to adaptation channel 50 and programme immo function then go back to channel 1 and programme key,

no need to wait for lockout

CS is in all VAG cars using id48 only diffrent is that some types immo write it durning programming, other expect already programmed. Transponder to dump is best way to "learn key" because you have much less factors wich can go wrong(ecu respond, locktime etc).

[davorOS]

thank you
all I say is that You don't need nothing special,blank id48,pin and diagnostic tool
main problem is that you need to select correct system it this case channel 25,and no problem in doing this car.

[autoTkey]

davorOS - this sounds useful but where do I get to connect to these channels and how am I supposed to know which channel is used for what? Actually you say you do it with AVDI but you don't really do it with AVDI since you don't use the special functions of AVDI.

And frankly if I need to dismantle the dash to get the PIN it would be much easier for me to also add the key while the dash is still connected to my UPA(rather faster than reassembling it all back together and then starting the programming sequence with PIN).

Nevertheless I still don't understand how Simaservis1108 extracted the CS which needs to be written in the transponder for it to be recognized by the system...

[obdsystems]

Go on ross tech website mate like i said- look up key/fob coding. even if u are a eeprom'ing wizard - a basic knowledge of channels and adaption is a must for older cars

[autoTkey]

Today I dealt with another Polo with the same ECU, same year, same engine but with VDO(93C86) dashboard. I was surprised how easy everything was with AVDI - reading the dash, extracting PIN, calibrating ODO, programming key ... everything was butter!

[simaservis1108]

VDO dashes are easy to do.Magneti Marelli no go.

[yugo45]

Magneti Marelli cluster is biggest crap they ever made.