2 x 'RF Out 2' combined in to 1 TV Coaxial (RG6) Distribution

[PJD]

Hi Guys,


I have Sky+ HD installed downstairs on my main TV

I have an I/O link on the back of it (Labgear MRX 600 with Power supply)
This has an RF2 Out sent up to the loft with in to splitter and is distributed around the house so I can watch Sky everywhere and have Magic eyes,
the system works very well and the picture is crystal clear, and the channel changing works perfectly.

I have recently had a second Satellite receiver set up from my Sky dish on the same TV (through HDMI)
This does not have an RF out so have bought a Labgear MRX700 DigiLink Scart-to-RF-Converter with Power supply and Inferred control

I have programmed the 2 RF outs on different channels and combined the 2 RF outs with a 2-1 splitter and sent them both back upto the loft to be distributed around the house


I carried out a scan to pick up the new channel and this gave me a few issues, The picture quality was very poor on both channels and I cannot seem to change the channel on the sky box and the satellite box from different rooms.
Sky channel 21
and
Satellite channel 41

I have removed the Labgear MRX700 DigiLink Scart-to-RF-Converter from the set up and gone back to the old set up with just the Sky, I am still unable to change the channels from other rooms, how ever the picture quality is crystal clear again
Also the red light on the magic eye's is not lit up any more

I was wondering if any of the tech guys could shed any light on my issue or maybe offer me a solution.

I have checked the obvious things like removing all the connections and re-fitting them also switching everything off for a few minutes and switching back on.
The only thing I have not checked is if the O/I link still has 12v coming out of it.

Could combining the 2 powered RF Out's together have back feed something and caused me an issue?

Please be gentle as I am on novice :biggrin:

Thanks in advance for your help Phil

[digicon]

Is the second satellite receiver another Sky box or just a standard satellite receiver with no RF2 compatibility, if so then you need to introduce/combine both signals before it enters the i/o link.

I would also check your freeview coverage for your area as the RF channels you are using could be causing problems

[PJD]

Thanks for your reply.

The second Satellite Receiver is a Openbox V8S with no 'RF Out'

The RF Out from the O/I link was combined with the RF Out from the Openbox...
...Are you saying I need to put the Openbox RF Out with the Freeview IN on the I/O link (Combine the 2)

Thanks Phil

[digicon]

yes you will need to combine your Freeview (Aerial) feed with the RF output from the V8s before it goes into the I/O link on the official sky box then the feed from the RF2 on the I/O link out will have your V8s RF stream your official Skybox RF stream and the Freeview stream all sent to your distribution system in the loft

[PJD]

Your a Diamond for that information :)

I will do this and let you know how I get on, Thanks again

[PJD]

Just wondering if there would be a splitter/combiner that you would recommend to join the Freeview & Openbox Coaxial's with?

[ramjet]

no need , all you do is connect the freeview aerial to the scart to rf converter on its rf input, then use its rf output to go to the rf input of the sly box, then send rf2 output from the sly box to the distribution loftbox, then its cables to the various tv,s including to the magic eye and looped into the back of the tv

either the loftbox or the rf2 output from the sly box will power the eye , depending on if the loftbox has a dc path (magic eye compatible) for the sly box power to passthrough, or alternatively if the loftbox provides its own power to magic eyes instead

so its

freeview aerial into the scart to rf converter
rf converter to sly box rf input
sly box rf2 output to loftbox
loftbox to magic eye
magic eye into the tv

so its a daisy chain system , but choose 2 "white noise" non-freeview channels for the sly box and the scart converter, so no clashes

you can test if the magic eye works by plugging it into rf2 output on the sly box to start with
it should power up, and if you shield the IR detector on the sly box front fascia, the magic eye should light up and operate the sly box when using the remote control

[PJD]

Thanks for the usefull break down there, I will try it when i get home from work


The I/O link has its own power supply
The distributer in the loft has a seperate power supply for the Masthead
Also the RF Modulater has its own power supply and 2 Infered sensors

Should the Inferred sensors still operate the Openbox wiring it up this way?

Also 1 last question, do you think I may have dammaged anything having it connected the way I did seeing they all have there own power supply?
I'm wondering if I could have put too much voltage down it or something?

[ramjet]

if the rf mod has IR senders (not sensores) then yes the powered and working magic eye will receive inputs from either remote control and the rf mod will transmit these using the senders so have those positioned in front of the IR sensor on the openbox

note , these have to be IR SENDERS , not sensors , the magic eye is an IR sensor to recive IR signals and send them over the coax , where they will go into the sly box RF2 plus will keep going to the rf mod as well , so both boxes can be controlled remotely

yes you could have damaged something if they all add 12v power , hence why I aid test the magic eye on the sly box, make sure it lights up , make sure it works (no it cannot have put too much voltage down the system, but they could have clashed and one could be dead)

if it works, try it from the tv end, making sure its powered and operates the sly box once more

if it fails to light up at the tv , then maybe there is no power to it from the loftbox ? so you need to narrow down what works, where , and why , then what fails , where , and why

ie:- standard fault finding

[PJD]

Thanks for your time and detailed explaination, I will spend some time on it and go through it methoically, hopefully I will get it sorted

And yes they are senders not sensors on the Scart to RF converter

On my Sky box Channel 21 is best for viewing up stairs, Which channel do you think would be best for the Scart to RF converter?

[ramjet]

impossible to say as each area has its own freeview digital channels for the transponders , in my area there used to be about 6 channels but since an@logue ceased and HD came in there seems to be more like 10

suggest you google your transmitter and see what channels they use , then look to stay well away from them , plus away from ch21 as well, perhaps looking between 25 and 30 ? I am suprised that you have not checked already

[digicon]

Good Information on here but i think your better off explaining a couple of things so as not to have more complications.

1. what make is the RF modulator on the V8s as you say it has 2 infared senders which i assume are for you to be able to control the receiver from any other point in your house

2. you mention a Masthead in the loft there is a difference a masthead is generally an Aerial amplifier with a separate power supply that just does Freeview distribution, A loft distribution amplifier has its own built in power supply and can distribute Freeview,FM/DAB,CCTV etc...

The reason i ask is because if your i/o link was a triax and the RF modulator was a triax tri-link you could lose the Powered loft distribution amp with a triax digital link which would have been powered by the triax tri-link. This way the Triax products can distribute RF and have both devices V8s and Sky HD controllable in any room via the RF2 Magic Eye.

If you have different models some can work with one another but some can also cause issues, Power fluctuations because all 3 devices are powered which can cause RF interference as well as swamp Freeview signals and cause problems there.

Generally if you have a powered loft distribution amplifier then there is no need to power the i/o link as without power they are good for at least 1 powered RF2 extension, as your sending it into the loft distribution which is powered this gives its own power to all remaining magic eye points.

Just hope this has not caused too much more confusion :-)

[PJD]

Good evening Gents, just want to say thanks again for your detailed help, I found it very useful.

I did not look into the broadcast channels yet, I have found 2 that seem steady for now, will look at the channels and see what I can find out though.

The I/O link is - Labgear MRX 600 with Power supply

RF Modulater is - Labgear MRX700 DigiLink Scart-to-RF-Converter with power supply

The freeview Aerial on the roof is powered from a device down in 1 of the bedrooms, this was added as they didn't have an 8 way distribution block that was powered.
The 'distribution block' as I'm calling it is just an 8 way splitter in a sealed box, no fancy parts on it for CCTV, Freesat or anything, I have my CCTV run over Cat5e & separate feeds for FreeSat

I also have a Rack mount to distribute Cat5e around the house.

Sky+ HD Box 500GB

OpenBox V8S

I tested the I/O link last night, I had 0v coming from the RF2 Out (It should have 12v, so I must have blown it!)
The RF1 Out has 9v (Which is correct) so for now till I get a replacement sent out I have continued to set it up from the RF1 Out

I done the Daisy chain as Ramjet suggested

Freeview >to> RF Modulater 'RF In'
RF Modulater 'RF2 Out' >to> 'RF In' on I/O Link
'RF1 Out' on I/O Link >to> Feed in loft on 8 way splitter
Then the splitter feeds all the rooms in the house

I also disconnected all the Magic eyes in the house apart from 1 so I don't get too much voltage drop out, this enabled the magic eye to work again.

Anyway upon doing all this, The picture on the TV has come along brilliantly, It's not crystal clear like it was before I added the second box, but I'm hoping once the replacement I/O link is fitted and I'v had a look at which channels are best to broadcast over it should be good

Is there a particular site you use to check the transmitter?

Thanks again guys this was very useful help and I appreciate it.

[ramjet]

try here _http://www.aerialsandtv.com/nationwidetransmitters.html

click on your region and check the rf channels on the right

and _https://ukfree.tv/

[PJD]

Thanks for that Ramjet,

My Local Transmitter is Sutton Coldfield, Would I be right in thinking 33, 35, 39, 40, 42. 43, 45, 46 are channels to stay away from?

http://www.aerialsandtv.com/suttoncoldfieldtx.html

[digicon]

Those are the ones to steer clear of so you have options to have RF channels on 21-30 and possibly 48-59 do not place anything on 60-69 as this is now @800mhz 4G band.

If you had a rack mount and able to distribute Cat5E all over the house i am surprised you did not go down the Cat5E/HDMI extenders would have upped your budget slightly but you would have had HD in all rooms that where equipped with Cat5E.

Glad its all sorted

[PJD]

That was an option, but If I did it I would use up all Cat5e sockets as I only have 2 in each room, The HDMI to Cat5 converters need 2 x Cat5e cables, If I had of installed cat6 then I could have got away with just the 1 cable.

Something for me to think about for the next house :excitement:#

I have 1 channel stored on Channel 21 already
Think I'll try tune the other channel from the other group of channel's between 48-59

Thanks again

[digicon]

Most of the decent HDMI Cat extenders will now work over a single Cat5e and transfer over the IR part for you as well

[PJD]

I didn't know they done it over a single Cat5e, when I first set up this system 2 years ago, they could only be sent over dual Cat5e, will bear it in mind maybe make some adjustments at a later date

[PJD]

I have had my replacement O/I link sent out,
I've set it all up, reprogrammed the channels
Channel 21 for Sat still & changed the channel 52 to Channel 58 for Sky (Done this to get a clearer picture)
Both channels are clear, I am able to change both the channels on Sky & Sat Boxes from all the rooms in the house, Just need to purchase some more remotes.

The only problem I am experiencing is when the Freeview cable is connected to the 'RF In' I get interference on all the channels, It took me about 3 hours to realize what the issue was, upon disconnecting the Freeview coax from the 'RF In' the picture became clear.

I have done a bit of googling and found that I may need a "Variable Attenuator" to connect inline with the freeview coax to stop the interference, is this right? they are around ?5 each on Ebay would be great if it resolved my issue, its just weird how I am now getting interference when I didn't before
I have double checked all the cables and connections even replaced them to no avail.
I also tried to just solely wire in the I/O link and solely wire in the RF transmitter, still got interference until I disconnected the Freeview from the 'RF In'

Also if anybody else is going to do a similar set up for them selves they need to wire them in this order as the way I had it before I could not change the channels on the Sat box.

Freeview (From Roof Aerial) >> To >> 'RF In' (On I/O link, (Connected to Sky HD box))
'RF 2 Out' (I/O Link) >> To >> 'RF In' (On RF Modulator from Sat box)
'RF 2 Out' (RF Modulator) >> To >> Distribution in loft
Distribution in loft >> To >> each TV with A magic eye connected.

Wiring it this way (In to I/O Link first) enables full control of both the Sky and Sat box through the magic eyes
Wiring it the other way (In to RF modulator first) stops the Inferred signal from getting to the RF modulator fore some reason.

I hope it helps other people.

[digicon]

You could try a bandpass filter as it appears that you may still be getting some form of interference from one or two freeview frequency's, as you are probably aware your aerial could be picking up another main transmitter or even a relay that could be within a 70 mile radius.

Try a bandpass filter that allows all your main transmitter frequency's through and attach it to the end of your Freeview aerial feed before it goes into the I/O link

[PJD]

Is there any particular type or frequency that you'd recommend I should get?

[digicon]

no particular brand but they come in different frequency ranges so just make sure you get one that does not block any of your main transmitter ones

Groups are as follows:

A: CH's 21-37 B: CH's 34-53 C/D: CH's 48-68 E: CH's 35-68 K: CH's 21-48

[PJD]

I am using channels 21 & 58, does that mean I will need to install 2 together?


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[digicon]

No! your at the wrong end of the stick a band pass filter suppresses Freeview transmitter signals so if you chose a Band A filter for example you would not get ant Freeview channels on frequency range 21-37 so you could put an RF channel in that range without fear of any co-channel interference from the freeview spectrum

[PJD]

Yes I see what you mean, but my RF channels stored are 21 & 58 which both are being interfered with the freeview connected up,
Both these channels are stored in different bands which is why I thought I might need 2 different filters?


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[digicon]

you only need 1 filter and then you can send both RF channels in the frequency range that the band pass filter blocks out

[PJD]

Oh I see, so change both the channels to be stored in say band A so keep channel 21 and maybe swap channel 58 to channel 30 say and all should be good ?


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[digicon]

Yes thats the general idea obviously make sure you get a filter that does not infringe on any of your freeview spectrum for your area

[PJD]

So I can't just go out and buy any old band, I have to find the 1 which has least impact on my freeview, nothing is ever simple is it lol


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[PJD]

Looking at my frequencies http://www.aerialsandtv.com/suttoncoldfieldtx.html It seems which ever filter I purchase will have an affect on the frequency, there is no band pass filter I can buy which does not fall in to the frequencies that are transmitted, does this mean which ever filter I buy will have an impact on my Freeview channels?

[ramjet]

a bandpass filter allows through the channels it mentions, which is what you want

so what you seek to do is suppress the channels from the aerial outside of the channels it lets through, leaving them free for use internally and protected from outside interference

so the bandpass filter would be fitted on the actual aerial coax cable as it comes into the first device, suppressing the channels you wish to use internally

[PJD]

Okay so if I am following you correctly a Group A Ch 21-37 filter should suffice on my set up then, I can leave the Sat on Channel 21 and retune the Sky to something like Channel 30

[ramjet]

a type B seems correct to me, read this from the am*zon description




Product Description

The OPTIMA OBF3453 is an Indoor Channel Grouped Band-Pass Filter. Group B for Ch34-53 (574 - 743Mhz)

The RF spectrum is filling up fast. With GSM, TETRA, PMR, LTE (4G) and forthcoming "white spaces" transmissions likely to cause interference it is even more important to properly filter the input to a TV aerial installation and signal distribution system. Un-filtered installations are likely to suffer from the effects of interference causing unreliable reception and disturbed viewing. OPTIMA filters are designed to remove unwanted frequencies from the aerial system.

To choose the right filter, establish the range of channels required (lowest and highest channel number) from your local TV transmitter and choose the nearest filter covering that channel group.

High Out-of-Band rejection >-30dB typical Low In-Band insertion loss -30dB @ 800MHz LTE band rejection: >-25dB @ 791MHz LTE band rejection: >-45dB @ 821MHz Label Indication colour: Yellow Connectors: F - female type DC Pass: DC Blocked Dimensions: 82 x 34 x 18mm Weight: 60g , The OPTIMA OBF3453 is an Indoor Channel Grouped Band-Pass Filter.



this passes the channels between ch34 to ch53 , blocking the lower and upper rf channels and your an*logue rf channels for sly and the sat box are on say 21 and 30, the lower part of the spectrum , so below ch34 which the filter is protecting (like a firewall)

but your freeview channels seem to go from ch33 to ch46 , so the 33 (mux 7) may be affected quite a lot so you could try a K and move the 2 rf channels to above 47 but below 60 , so 48 to 59 as digicon said earlier

a group A would block your higher muxes so cannot be correct

[PJD]

Thanks for bearing with me guys, its quite confusing, although I think I have grasped it.

The Group A would not be any good as it lets through Ch 21-37 now seeing as my channels go from 33-46 it would only let through channels 33 & 35 and block out the rest,
If I installed a a Group B Ch 34-53, it would let through all my channels except for Ch 33
So by installing a Group K 21-48, it would let through channels 21-48 meaning all the channels would get through and if I re-tuned the Sat & Sky to channels 50 & 58 everything would be rosey

I cant seem to find any Group K Band pass filters though

[digicon]

Its hard you want to try living in an area where your channels start at 31 and end at 58 LOL

[PJD]

Bet that causes you all kind of issues

[ramjet]

if you installed a B type filter you can see what channels are affected on mux 7 (com 7) on here

https://ukfree.tv/transmitters/tv/Sutton_Coldfield

as its rf channel 33 then you may find they still work even on reduced signal, or the filter may not be as bad seeing as its only 1 rf channel out from the 34 pass channel

alternatively , if you can do without those affected channels then a B type would suffice as it would allow the other 7 muxes to operate normally

[PJD]

Thanks for your reply, I'll get a B type filter ordered


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[PJD]

I fitted the Type B Filter this morning, still no difference :torn:

[PJD]

Going to give this thread a bit of a bump,

I had another replacment Labgear MRX600K I/O link sent out, I have fitted this with the freeview connected, i went through every channel 1 by 1 and found the 2 best channels which were 24 & 69
Still cant get a brilliant picture, is there anything else i can do to boost the picture? I already have a Type B filter fitted
If i loose the freeview coax then the picture quality becomes perfect, but I dont want to do this as a permant solution

Also 1 last piece of information, the MRX600K puts out 9v from the RF2 out, should it not put out 12v? could this be the reason the picture quality is not very good?

[PJD]

I think I'm starting to have a bit of luck with this now.

I have spent many more hours on this playing with it and trying different things.

I have a 3rd replacment I/O link fitted
I have the Type B filter on,
I found some loose connections which I corrected,
I also got rid of the splitter from the Freeview and have the downstairs TV connected up from the RF1 from the RF Modulator for the freeview.

I have found 1 good channel 65 I am running the Sky box from this, I am still having trouble finding a good channel for the Sat box though,
I have just ordered a decent Scart lead to connect the Sat box to the Rf modulator just incase the cheap 1 is picking up some interference.

Its such a slow process keep trying different things, now I have the tv downstairs connected up from the RF1 it has made the job easier for testing channels, saves me keep going up 2 flights of stairs every time i want to try it.

I feel like I am making progress though :)

[PJD]

Well 2 months down the line and I have finally resolved this issue.

I purchased a Variable Attenuator and swapped it with the band pass Filter I had fitted......Problem solved, Got crystal clear picture on both the Sky and satalite channels that are broadcast over RF :)

I have no problems with it at all, took me many many hours but got there in the end :)

I would just like to thank the guys that did help me out, it was much appreated and helped me out big time :)