My toys

[PocketHero]

Hello guys!

We are running a small locksmith shop, and it makes me allways a lot of thinking about getting something or not, thats why I wrote this post.
I will try to tell what kind of key programmers (and other hardware) I have, and what they are good for.
I don't think that it will be better than others wrote about, but I have some experience using 'em
Sorry for my bad English, but I never learned this language, just (mis)using...

Key programmers:
- CK100 (V99.99)
-SKP900 (V5.0) Updated
- SBB2 (V2017)
- FVDI
- AVDI
- Tango
- SuperVAG
- Lonsdor K518ISE + SK-LT (Newest available) Updated
- Super VAG K-CAN 2
(and lots of cheap tools like Op-Com, 4in1 (Ford, Mazda, Renault, Nissan), VAGcom etc. They were too cheap to not to buy, but I don't use them.)

Eprommers:
- XProg-M 5.0 (chinese version)
- Orange5
- VVDI Prog 4.6.7 Updated
- Rosfar 3000 v7.8s
- TL866A
- AK90+ 3.19 Updated

Key cloners:
- ZedBull (Chinese version)
- Handy Baby + JMD key Updated
- RW4 Plus + M-box

Remote programmer:
- KD900

If theres any kind of questions, I'll try to answer as far I can.

Let's see the details:
- CK100:
A must have. Ideal to use it with SKP900. Cheap enough to have one, and sometimes it does wonders. Nice and easy to use, has 1032 tokens when you get it. Cheap token refill, and charges in 50% no tokens. I've a pdf on my phone with the compatibility list, so I can allways check if it can do the car, or not. Sometimes it does the newest cars too, for example a 2016 Ford Flex with smart keys. I had to buy an old Daewoo converter to it, but that's all. Has some limited pin-code tools, but don't wait for wonders. There are no update functions, but who cares for this money http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=187713&d=1363887632
You can get it from $70 with free shiping

- SKP900:
Good tool. Ideal to use it with CK100. The 1st one, what come with special adaptors for Hyundai, Kia and Honda. Does remote programing too, what can come handy often. With compatibility list on my phone, I can always know when it is good for the wehicle. It is rumored, that there won't come out more updates after 5.0, but we will see. If you have to deal with expensive cars (Jags for example) it can do wonders when updated properly. It has a free token system, but you need from time-2-time to refill it via internet - thats the most irritating point of the tool. You can update it via PC program - it is very slow, but it is worth to wait. Better pin tool than the CK, but nothing extraordinary. You can get it from $320 with free shiping
Update: It seems to be dead now - http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/648751-SKP900-Server-Down-Dead-no-more-Tokens (http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/648751-SKP900-Server-Down-Dead-no-more-Tokens?highlight=lonsdor)
I think I don't have to change my mind after this sad news, because we lost only the updates and the token system, this toy stays usable for 2-5 years - depends on the cars age what you have to deal. Its price will be lowered in a half year, or you can get it without tokens on ebay almost for free

- SBB2:
A must have. I got it for last x-mas from me http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.png It is not so easy to use for the first look, but it has oddometer-correction tool, and can use .bin files or read directly from an eprommer. Has the same connector-collection as the SKP, is meant to be the next generation. It is said that it has all the function of the CK100, but I've found lots of diferences. Another advance is that it can read and delete trouble codes (DTCS), and clear oil change periods. This didn't work on a 2010 Kangoo II. It can be updated via internet, never tried, but it is said to be working. Better pin tool than the CK, but nothing extraordinary. Cheap enough for its knowledge, you can get it for $140 with free shiping.

- FVDI:
Cheap solution for the poors. It is the chinese clone of Abrites, with limited abilities. If you want to buy it, then try to get an older one, because the new ones are the clones of a clone. I don't want to waste time on detailed description, it can help a lot or freezee without any marks or destroy the connected car's parts - but it is cheaper than cheap, you can get it from $100 with free shiping.

- AVDI:
Professional tool for professionals (only). The best thing what you can have for programming and so on - for a lots of money. If you are a professional, you can't do your work without it: does a lots of cars via OBDII, what other tools can't (Benzs, Jag XK, various models of VAG group, aso). A class of its own. The prices are high enough to wait out the promotions (x-mas, aso). For the beginning buy only that module, what you mostly need, and buy the other modules when you can't avoid it. At the moment the Benz module is the best on the market what you can buy. Full package costs more, than $30.000, yearly subscription €200.

- Tango:
Another must have. It is modular like AVDI or TMProII, with limited free functionality for each manufacturers. The whole BMW package is free, so you have to get it if you have to deal with Beemers. To be honest it has lots of weak points, but the documentation what is included makes it worth to pay for: pictures of the devices what you have to look for, sometimes with location and unmount pics; list of the transponders what you can use to the chosen task; the name of the chip what you have to deal with. Packages are from 50€, you get the activation code in e-mail very fast, but can depend on your dealer. So much from the good side, let's see the weak points: It comes often, that you can't open the .bin files for their name, just have to find out where the program accepts it. For example: Yaris as Corolla, Insignia as Camaro, Cordoba as Polo, Picanto as C'eed, aso. It gives some well-known problems: can't do anything with the RB8 controllers, aso. It is a bit uncommon, that it wants to be updated allways, but who cares, it goes fast enough via smart phone too.
However: you have to buy this to be able to do your work, so take a deep breath, and pay: 1200€ for the basic sw+hw.

- SuperVAG:
Czeh curse upon us. 1000€ without oddometer correction, only for the Volkswagen group. This sounds fine, but they promise 1 year free update - even in September - what lasts only till January. In many cases the program says, that the key programing is blocked, try again later - but no words about how long to wait. The pin tool works rhapsodic: some times great, some times clean time wasting. Another weak point is the RB4/8.
The manufacturer said that the instrument cluster module is a good solution without soldering. My question is only "what is it good for - absolutly nothing"... The module says what to do, and when you follow the instructions, then it ends with an error message. You can try it many times, it won't deliver the needed result, as long you follow the popups. When (after several tries) you try to change, and press "no" instead "yes", then the things begin to change, and you could get the needed result. You could. Tried this module 3 diferent cars, then did the same work with soldering: the result shows that it is much more faster when you do it on the oldschool way.
Another joke is the yearly €160 for updates. Better spend this money on Abrites, it is much more worth of it.

- Lonsdor:
I can't really say if it is worth of its price, or not. I think I got a broken OBD-cable with the tablet, thats why it sometimes works, some times stops with connection error. Have to deal it with the seller, but thats another story. The tool is easy to use, has a lots of functions, in many places with screenshots how it should work. Not a cheap toy ($1400 with the Toyota pack), but I think it could be a good tool for the daily use (when you already bought it). Needs internet connection (at least once a week to check for updates) for some actions.
To be honest I've spent a lot of times to test it for DK, and I think it promises a lot, but now it is too weak in knowledge for this money. But if you already have it, you can hope that they will work on updates harder as a rock.
Update: It seems to be working now (at least with smart key cars). The making of a smart key for a '14 Dodge Charger was fast & easy: the only trick was that I had to chose Journey from the wehicle list. Pin reading and programing was done in 2 mins.
'13 Jaguar XJ: smart key programing in 2 mins
'14 Jaguar XK: chanceless (only Abritas knows this car today)
'13 Megane III Ph2: no pin reading, asks for pin to be able to do programming.
'11 Clio III Ph2 Grand Tour: Nothing. No communication.
2 pcs Astra H: No pin; 4 pcs Astra G: No pin; and a Corsa C: no pin.
'17 Mustang Shelby GT350: It was harder to get out the rubber pad from the cup holder, than the programing itself. Smart key added in 1 min.
'04 Clio II Ph2 30 sec without pin
'10 Megane III Ph1 RS under one minute with hands free cards
'08 Dodge RAM 1500: it toke 5 mins to catch that it has to be programed as it were younger than 2012. With that setting under a minute with pin extraction.
'07 E60 Beemer: The customer had a chinese folding key with 315 MHz and he paid for just the trying - we told him that it won't work - the only thing was that we had to re-activate the original keys. I think it can be done when you use the factory diamond 868 MHz keys.
'13 Dodge Charger smart key OK
'15 Ford Edge remote key OK, under 2 mins.
'04 & '06 Megane II: under a minute, normal cards
'15 Dodge Challenger: under 2 mins OK
Won't work with the Transit Connect variants (small furgons), neither Custom, Passenger, Tourneo. Tried only 5 of 'em from 2006 to a 2016 Eco Flex - no communication, or connection lost after reading the VIN. You can try it as Focus and Fiesta too - the result will be the same. I've made the programming mostly with the SKP900.
'15 Chrysler Town & Country under 30 secs with pin extraction
'11 Ford Transit (Normal big one) under 2 mins with AKL solution
Strange, but true: If you chose AKL @ Transit, then you can program only one key too, the difference is that the remote controller will be disabled, and the immo LED won't switch off, but you can start the car. Tested @ my mates transit, worked fine with only one key fine for 3 days, then was the second key added, because he hated to open the backdoor with two turns to open direction on the driver's door. When I added the second key, the remote began to work again (was added before teaching key).

I think it is a good tool if you have to deal with smart keys - if pin is needed and the Lonsdor can't deliver it I don't try again when i get the codes.

- Super VAG K-CAN 2:
Just to solve the RB4 / RB8 problem by Audis. Cheap enough to save you in such situatinos. I got it 2 weeks ago, but had no possibility to try it. With free shiping only 70 bucks.

I don't know how others think about that situation when you can't read out the content of a chip, but I swear to myself that it won't happen again. That's why I have so much eprommers, just to avoid such situations.

- XProg-M:
Good tool, but not necessary to have (or get a chinese one). It was the first one what I had, but you can find where it leaks sooner as you could think. It was and is a very good eprommer. Very good if you have to deal with Motorolas, but not so universal than the O5, or the VVDI Prog. If you buy the original one, it can be expansive: €2000 for the full set with all the sw authorization and connectors, but you can get the chinese clone of v5.5 from $50.
Warning: The cheap version can cause troubles, because it is built from cheapest parts. Sometimes 0.01 V difference can cause expensive troubles

- Orange5:
A must have. You can't avoid to get it if you want to do the car work seriously. Good for EEPROMs, MCUs, has a good Immo-content. This immo-part can be very helpful: in many cases you have only to solder some vires to the PCB, and you can read/write the needed content. Contains tons of pictures of immo-boxes, ECUs, and other PCBs; chip pinouts, and lots of useful informations. The basic kit costs only €350, I suggest to pay a bit more, and buy all the needed connectors with the basic kit: SOIC8 DIP8, SOIC8 14 soldering, SSOP8, Lead whith clips POMONA SOIC8 & DIP8, PQFP52 PQFP80, TMS374, 912 908 and 705E6 in-circuit leads, HC11ES and 05B6 WDT VW chip connectors (be getle with 'em, otherwise you have to buy a new one after 5-10 uses), ST62xx, 908AS60/AZ60 QFP64, all Motorola connectors. You will see how often do you use this connectors, and you can re-order the frequently needed ones.

- VVDI Prog:
The best 2nd eprommer what you can get (for moderate price). Mostly used for Beemer and Benz in our shop. Not too expensive, but easy 2 use. I bought it when we had difficulties with a Beemer and the problem was solved in no time. Has good pictures for in-circuit-use, and needs less connectors as the O5 for the daily use. A bit uncommon look, but you can find everything if you look with open eyes http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=187713&d=1363887632 Free updates and compatibility with all other X-Horse product. With free shiping costs $400, thanks to its origin no clones are available.
Update: It f**kked away a '08 W169 A class's flash. Toke a lot of time to repair it. My dealer said that it can happen often @ Benzs. Maybe the only way to avoid data loss is to push the "Read ID" button first. If the identification is ok, then you have your chance (tested on a '11 W245 B class). Other mistake was made by a CAS4 reading of this eprommer. Can't tell ya more about this just readed about it.

- Rosfar
To be honest never used this tool. I'm pretty sure, that it has its potential, but better don't spend money on this except you get it used around 50-100 bucks. Has no support, the original company went bankrupt, and the new owner does nothing, just sells the existing stuff for €1000. It was a good tool 10 years ago - but now it is overaged. I can't really tell why I bought it (because it was cheap and supports Beemer), but God only knows when it can come handy. Works with EWS1-4, CAS1-2.

- TL866A
Cheap chinese toy, has 24 connectors. Bought it when I couldn't find a TTL connector to the exsisting ones, and my dealer was on holiday. I got it within a week, seems to be correct enough. Since its arrival I used to it only once to test it. The binaries were the same readed by TL & O5, so I put it back to its box, and not used anymore. As far I see it is a perfect hobby tool, costs only $40 with free shiping. When compared with X-Prog I would prefer the other eprommer, or buy both of 'em (only the cheap version!).

- AK90
Too cheap to not to have it if you have to deal with old BMWs. Excellent EWS tool, makes everyone happy: the customer can get a cheap remote key, and you can make fast profit. Has plug-on-chip connectors, what are doing its work perfectly if you remove the protecting resin from the chip pins. Does all EWS protocols, but be cautious it can delete the 2D47J content.
You can get it from $25 with free shiping.
Update: Since a half year or so it gives the next generation of the tool called 'AK91(+)' around $400. Just don't spend your money on this, a lots of devices know the EWS 4.4 programing for a better price
Another extension is the X-Prog, R270 and AK90 adapter for EWS 4.3 & 4.4. Needs no soldering, no on-chip-reading, you have only to fasten the PCB in it, and you can read and write the datas. The price is approx $35 with free shiping - I think it is worth to get it for hobbist and pros too

Key cloning is one of the most important part of our job. My policy is "better cloned as programed", because a cloned chip works for sure; while you can have lots of unexpected errors when you try to add a new key.

- ZedBull
Good tool, but overaged. I have the cheap Chinese version, and have downloaded the EFfI sw to be able to use all functions of it. Cheapest way to clone, but has its own limits, whats are easy to reach with ID46 and 48 chips. Nothing to risk with its $20 price (mostly with free shiping), but don't take it too serious ;)

- Handy Baby
A must have! At the moment it is the best handheld cloner, what you can get. With the JMD key expansion it can save you with ease when you have to deal with VWs - even in AKL situations. It is not a wonder weapon, in practice it needs time for calculations (some times 45 mins), but in the meantime you can cut the key, aso. Never tried with G-chips, so I can just tell ya that it is said to be working. Has built-in batteries, and you can always charge it from your car - ideal tool to take with you. The special transponders are cheap enough to save you a lot of money compared to the RW4, and the main unit costs only $350, the JMD Key box around $250, and the G-chip authorization (if not included) $80, always with free shiping.
Update: They stopd selling the JMDD, JMD6, JMD8 chips, instead of 'em you can buy Blue or Red King Chips. The blue one is for everything except ID48 for the usual price, the red is for ID48 much expesiver.
Some news in the following threads:
http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/656299-TK5561A-chip-for-handy-baby-to-clone-mazda-ac
http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/656364-Handy-baby-transponder-cloner-success-rate

- RW4 Plus
For professionals (only). It is made by Silca, that means it is expensive. I bought it together with the M-Box (in a special promotion with 10 ID48 and 40 GTI chips), when my Handy Baby couldn't clone the key of a TT. It works with special devices called "snoop"s, one for ID46 and another (M-Snoop) for ID48. It needs internet connection for calculating a 48 transponder, can take 20 mins or more for the whole procedure. Works only with the expensive Silca transponder chips, so I try to avoid its usage if possible to save profit. Good point, that you can power it from your car or from AC, but its size is too big to take it always with you. Its price was (in special promotion) €2100, ask your locale dealer about promotions - otherwise it can be €3000 or more with ease.

In our profession you can't overcome the remote key fobs, so there comes the best solution what I could find for this...

- KD900
Another must have. It can save your a$$ in the most important moments, so don't hesitate - innovate! :D With PC sw for that cars what are more difficult as the others it works fine, can save you a lots of money 'coz its remotes are cheaper than the originals, and are easy to code 'em for almost every car. Usually I don't have anything else for the VAG group, in rare cases I replace the KEYDI head with original Audi (for the logo) and the customer has a cheap Audi remote, we have our profit. This tool is good for everybody: the cheapest for own use, the 900 for pros.
You can buy the KD stuffz from $25 (Phone version), the 900 costs $230 with free shiping. Remotes are available from $6.5/pcs

So much for now ... In the next post I will introduce some other tools what I met, keep on checking ;)

[PocketHero]

The Legend continues, with another toys this time with tried, but never owned tools - except some of 'em http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.png

The list:

- VPC100
- Mini CN900
- Xhorse Remote Key Programmer
- VAGcom
- OPcom
- 4 in 1 (Renault, Nissan, Mazda & Ford programmer)
- MVP Pro
- Tango Clone
Update:
- CAS 2-3 & 4 tester
- MDP Programmer: XEP100
- SKP1000
- TMPro2

So much for now, maybe later I will add some more.

- VPC100
A real joke. They say that this is a pin code calculator - I say it is a dust collector. It works with tokens, for the beginning you get 100 (I got 300, another 200 net-tokens too, to be able to count pins on the vpc website). I don't know why, but usually it counts more than one token for the worst results too. For example: Nissan Almera 2004. Date code is 11924A; encrypted pin is E0D4 and the NATS came from Mexico. Pin is 8568. The VPC website delivers the same result for 4 web-tokens (8 if you don't register a machine), but you need a bit experience what to enter and where and how... BUT: the device itself delivers the same result for 4 tokens - staying at this example. We met such Almeras, where the net and the device version gave out wrong results. It does not know the Infinmity keycode (can be counted from VIN), charges you for 4 token @ Hyundai/Kia pin code (CK100 gives it for free) and so on. If you are looking around you can find @ the download section the programs for free what can avoid the usage of this tool.
Nowadays it costs ~$25 with 100 tokens.

- Mini CN900
Meant to beat out the Handy Baby from the market, but as far I see without success. This one is the handheld version of the CN900, as the developers said with all of its abilities. Ok, this info comes from my dealer: the mini knows only 80% of the HB's work tested on real cars. If you have handy baby you don't need the cn. Price is around $150 with free shiping.

- Xhorse Remote Key Programmer
Never owned, gives better ones. This is the alternative when you don't want to have lots of devices: a mini CN900 built in one box with a KD900 clone. Some of the owners talks about this tool as it were the Holy Grail, others try to sell it fast after its arrival. The fact is that the Handy Baby is more better than the mini CN, and the KD is good and stabile. I can imagine only one situation where it can be useful: if you have a lots of original factory remotes without cars, because this toy has a renewing pad kit for original remotes. The cloner works only with its own transponders, around $3.5 a piece, what equals the Handy Baby chip prices (except the blue/king chips); the remotes are also in the same price (around $10). It costs $220 with free shiping, another $320 for the remote renew kit, or together for $499.

- VAGcom
Uncomfortable. I bought it coz it was to cheap enough to buy it, but is too difficult to use. A simple Seat remote re-teaching can be done in three different places - I better prefer the SKP900 for this. Some are swearing, that this is a good tool, but to be honest it is too uncomfortable for me. Yo can get it for $6 with free shiping, so you don't risk anything when you get it. ;)

- OPcom for Opel/Vauxhal
Another too cheap tool - but I didn't succeed to install it. It is said to be able to read pins trough OBD from Astra G or younger, but I couldn't do anything with it. You can get it from China from $12 with free shiping

- 4 in 1
Cheap toy for everyone. Bought it because it can be used for Renault, Nissan, Mazda and Ford. I couldn't use it because I don't like to run around with a laptop, when other tools can solve my problem too. The Nissan part couldn't read out pin from a NATS2 device, then the Renault part wasn't able to do programing on a Thalia - so I drop it out from my car. I think it is a more-than-nothing tool for hobbists, costs only $30 with free shiping.

- MVP Pro
The big question. Another Silca tool, that means it is damn expensive. My pal bought it, so he can lend it to me when I need it ;D The most important thing is that it works with tokens. Very expensive tokens if you ask me, because usually I pay 10€ for a token. I know it is cheaper when we buy 100 or more, but I think it is near to robery.
The tool itself is modular, you can buy only the needed parts, but I think if you give money for this, then get the fully featured version. I use it as 'the last possibility' when nothing else works. It worked only once when I couldn't teach an Alfa 147 factory remote key in AKL situation. All other tries were just a shoot in the dark, but in that cases the cars were damaged.
The price of the full version is around $3700 or 2000 quids + VAT depends on your contry and dealer.
You can get a chinese clone of this device, costs around $150 with free shiping - can't tell ya anything about it, wasn't drunk enough to order it ;D

- Tango Chinese clone
God! Have mercy! A real crap. Mostly you can't trust it, but has all sw packets what the original can offer. The only positive thing what I can tell ya is the built-in full documentation what the original had. Ok, it is not so tragic as it seems for the first look, but it makes often mistakes. I think €200 is too much for the documentation only when the hw itself is worthless, and sooner or later you have to buy the original one.

- CAS testers
Good toys when needed. I bought 'em together with my X6 on IKS '17 from a Polish company. The price was €100 for each (CAS2-3, CAS4). They are a bit expensive, but can help you out if you get only the CAS module to make keys from it. With the use of 'em you can be absolutly sure that your key works fine - avoids a lots of troubles when the car is defected.

- XEP100 Prog
Another tool for pros only. In full version it costs €4800 what is a lot of money for a single eprommer. Ok, that's the full version with tablet and everything, but... You have support with it. I mean real one. Not like Simon Touch's unreachable one, but a real one. "On demand program flashes database allow you to fix ECUs damaged by other programming interfaces." Another good point is "No need to heat the microprocessor within any temperature range". My dealer ordered one, I will see when I can test it, and how far are the producers promises true. Until then I can only tell ya that I haven't met bad reputation about this tool.

- SKP1000
Only when you want to waste your money! It is a good tool, the next generation of SKP900 with epromer and everything what you can can call trendy today. The only problem is, that SuperOBD stopped supporting, so it is chanceless, like the Troyan woodhorse on the Derby of Epsom. Originaly was designed @ superobd, but produced by Lonsdor. It has oddometer, oil change and other options, but costs $500, what is too expensive for a dead tool. Looks & works like the 518ISE. The token system was removed, so I think we lost a good tool with it. RIP.

- TMPro2
Expensive alternative of Tango. The original hardware is cheap - and that's the only thing what's easy to get. The tool has lots of modules (208 at the moment) and the cheapest ones costs €100, but gives lots of modules over 1000 euro. It gives some modules that are able to use such binaries what no ther tool can, but they are insanely expensive. If money doesn't matters, then this is the best choice what you can make; otherwise depends only on your customers what is what you have to build up: Tango or TMPro. The main software without modules and hardware is free to use, but is only able to tell about a binary file when that's good or not. The main hardware is between 89-150 euro. I think I won't pay for this nearly €30.000.- to have the full version. (Maybe cheaper if you buy the whole package together...)

That's it for now, please check back later - will be updated if I know anything important http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=187713&d=1363887632

[Stelaras26]

Mate...Your POST is GREAT!
Cheers and thanks for your time writing this!

[PocketHero]

Thx M8 ;) Just trying to make the choice easier :itsme:

[PocketHero]

Ok, this is the last part for now, this time I will introduce the automatic key cutting machines:

The List:

- Miracle A5
- Miracle A9 Premium
- X6/V8
- Silca Futura Pro

This tools are ones of the most important part of our job: key blade making. You have to get a CNC machine to do your job fast & easy, but if you make a bad choice, then it'll be an expensive one.

- Miracle A5
One of my friends bought it almost 10 years ago, and uses it till today. In that time it came with a PDA, where you could do the work, and upload it to the machine. Was a good looking solution to sell the machine to yerks, but in the practice it is better when you program the A5 from the keyboard. The main problem is, that this machine can use only one tool at the same time, so you have to change the cutter and the probe always. When it was new, the keys what it made were usually working, when not you had to cut the same key again, and then it was ok. Please do not compare this with todays A5, as I said it is a 10 yrs old model. You can get it from $2000 used.
Today's A5 is an industrial standard, this is the basic model of the automated key cutters. They didn't forgot the PDA, but you can use smartphone, tablet, laptop, anything via bluetooth for programing, or simply its keyboard. Has practical carry points, can be operated from AC and cigarette lighter too. All kinds of adaptors are available between 10-50 bucks/pcs, has its ovn battery what can help when operated from 12V.
You can have it from $3000 + shiping + taxes.

- Miracle A9 PremiumOne of the bests for your shop - for moderate price. I have read, that the most relevant factor @ key copying/making is the boredom, because that's the factor what causes bad copies mostly. This machine can do everything to avoid that: separated probe & cutter, color touch screen, easy to use pictures (for those who can't understand the language) etc. Has 5 different desks for the different tasks (cutting, engraving, dimple & normal keys etc.), and some additional tools for difficulter key shapes (HU66, SX9, Tibbe etc). Some users told me, that it needs to be calibrated too often - but they didn't used the key measuring function, because it isn't switched on @ every keytype. When you switch it on, then you lose 10-20 secs/cut, but the result will be perfect. Has 3 speeds: Brass, Nickel-Silver and Steel. It slows the movement of the desk, avoiding cutter breaks. One special side of this is the fact, that you can only cut metal keys, because it works with electrical contact sensing. If you put a plastic key in, then it will break the probe or the cutter in zero time.
At the beginning you get a lots of accessories: 2 x 1 mm probe & 2 x 2 mm cutter, spare belts in all possible sizes, a HU66 pad, hex wrench, antistatic brush - the usual things. The machine can be updated via wifi or ethernet - please prefer the wired connection, because it freezes allways when you try to update it via wifi. One other important thing is its internal memory, where you can find all the cuts what you have ever made (at least I couldn't reach the poit where it begins to delete the oldest ones). Not only the key type as the X6 does, but everything.
One additional info: It has a battery inside, and can be powered from a car, but it is not recommanded: powered by a 3 KW inverter the cutter rotation always slows down, and stops before cutting the key. If you want to use it in your car, then get an A5 or an X6.
You can buy it from 5000 pounds + VAT, not cheap but worth of its price.

- X6/V8
The best 2nd automatic cutter at the moment. Bought it to use in my car, and it is perfect for this purpose. I think there's nearly nothing new what I could tell about it, because it has its own topic here: (http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/383783-X6-V8-Key-Code-Cutting-Machine)http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/383783-X6-V8-Key-Code-Cutting-Machine Nothing extraordenary, just a Miracle A5 clone. Needs a bit of experience when you use it, for example it cuts with the 2 mm cutter the HU100 too wide, it won't turn in the ignition. So you have to set the cutter for 2.5 mm (and use the same 2 mm one) to get the good result.
Another problem for me is the cutting memory: it records only the key type without biting. If you stop the actual work, then you have to re-enter the biting, because it can't remember even the last one. When it is too cold for the X6, then the cutter stops too high over the blank, so the cutter won't reach the blank's surface. In this cases I apply a not too strong pressure on the cutter head while moving down to reach the working position. To be honest it has its own faults, but can make a lot of profit for you; only a little care is needed. When you operate it from cigarette lighter, then it needs at least a 100AH battery to be able to work, otherwise you have to run the engine to avoid emergency stops from low voltage.
Maybe it seems that I wrote only about its faults, but I am very satisfyed with the machine. It saves me a lot of time to be able to cut the keys on the roadside, and the price is low enough to buy a second CNC. U can buy this machine from $1200 with free shiping, 5 probe and 10 cutter for $50, HU66, HU64, etc tools from $20.

- Silca Futura Pro
Just tell me what have I done for this punishment! To be honest the machine is very precise @ cutting, but thats all the good side of it. Comes with an ASUS tablet, what needs 5 (!!!) mins to start, and then you have to start the app to be able to do your work. (This time is 1.5 min @ the A9, 1 min @ X6...) The well known InstaCode's simplyfied version is integrated into the sw, with all of its faults.
Has 2 cutters: one for the external cut, one for the internal millings. The most disturbing for me after the software is the decoding. You have to loosen a screw and pull down the measuring pin and fasten it, then you can set the sw to get the cutting datas. For so much money I think it could be made easier. Has all the extras what the others (Tibbe keys, engraving, etc), but I think they've found a way to make it more complicated as necessary. Its price is high enough to leave it in the shop: 7500 quids (+VAT) with the needed adapters (HU162, HU66, SX9, etc).

[ROMIR]

Hi dear,
thank you so mutch for this valuable information !

if you can help me i need an advice : what would be the better choice between SKP900, SBB2, OBDSTAR X100 PRO and OBDSTAR X300 PRO (for key and remote programming i mean)? which one is more reliable and stable ?

other thing: what do you think of the new tools released from OBDSTAR
H100
H108
H110 vag+ RFID addapter
are they worth

Thanks in advance
Regards

[PocketHero]

Hello mate!

To be honest I never met the X-series, so it will be hard to give a correct answer.

After my usual practice I would take the basic tool for first, and that's the CK100 v99.99. With this you can start to practice on cars, and earn some money. As next I would get some headaches, and then buy the X300 Pro3 pad. I repeat I never used this tool, never tried, but it was made from the SKP900, and after that infos what I've found (and the end of the support for the SKP) it seems to be have a better database than the 5.0.
Oh not to forget: there's a hidden trap! For the same money (not spoken from the update fee) you can get the SBB2 and the SKP. These ones are good enough to spend the money on 'em, but the X300 has a PSA pin tool, what (if it works) can come handy often, and has EEPROM-reader support, what the other tools not - or have to buy it separated.

At the moment I can't tell you anything about the H series, please give me some time to get some infos, I promise that I won't 4get ;)

I gave my word, so here is it:

Let's begin with the most important: H110. They've sold only 42 pcs till today, and thats nothing - we speaking about the manufacturer's webshop. There's no relevant feedback, there's nothing, just promises. We all know, that the OBDstar is not trustworthy enough to believe everything what they promise. If you have $320 to risk, then buy it, otherwise - when you calculate with the danger - the FVDI you can get from $100. Does a lot more than just the VAG group, but there's some risk when you use it. If you look around in the forums here in DK you can found lots of posts where the OBDstars faults and mistakes are, so your risk is always there either buying it or not.

@ this point you will have at least 2 tools for programing, and you got a bit experience, and you begin to feel witch direction to go (what kind of cars coming up mostly). I prefer to wait out with the H series instead of investing. It won't be much more expensiver, but you can find trustworthy reports about it.

[ROMIR]

THANKS A LOT , MATE...:peaceful:

[PocketHero]

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate ;)

[kostat]

Thanks for the informations m8.
May i ask you where do you buy remotes for kd900 at 6.5$/pcs?

[PocketHero]

Thanks for the informations m8.
May i ask you where do you buy remotes for kd900 at 6.5$/pcs?
Hello mate!

Not having enough time to search, only one result:

https://www.dhgate.com/product/keydiy-kd900-remote-control-b01-3-1-button/410114702.html#s1-20-1b;searl|0258381706

Mostky we buy B01 or B02 remotes (100+ pcs) on this price, and share it with our workmates. If you don't want to buy so much, then you can found it in 10 packs for $7.5-9 (every type). If you order 500 pcs from the manufacturer in plastic bags then you can even lower this price - sadly this quantity is too much for us.
I hope I could help ;)

[Manta1600]

PocketHero this is the best thread with honest reviews for key tools that I ever saw in one place. Thanks

Can you tell me if CKP900 and CKP1000 are discontinued which tool is better for remote programming?

and is it possible to program remotes for most EU cars without tool ?

Regards

[PocketHero]

Hello Manta!

Ok, here you go:
The SKP900 is a good tool for some remotes, but you can't buy a universal remote programmer. It was and is a good toy, but it depends on the cars what you want to program. For the first tool you have to chose a cheaper basic tool, like SBB2. Contains some remotes, but makes itself usable with lots of other functions. If you want one of the SKPs, then I would prefer the 900, you can get it cheaper (or a used one from ebay) - but if you have enough money, then the 1000 could be a better choice for double price. But I think it is better to have a smartphone, and google every car you wanna work with for the best result - in most cases gives a manual way too.

Best regards

[Manta1600]

Thanks to your thread I already ordered SSB2

but I want to buy one more tool with better coverage for remotes but here is the dilemma what to order

if I must choose between SKP900 for $350 and SKP1000 for $500 I will prefer SKP1000

but if I will pay $500 for SKP1000 it may be better to buy X300 Pro3 that still has updates but updates are paid

and if I pay $500 for X300 Pro3 and must pay for updates it may be better to buy Lonsdor 518 for $1300 which I know you don't like too much.

or may be will be better to buy X300 DP for $1100 for full version + RFID or maybe something else?

I know that you don't use all of these tools but any opinion will be of help

Regards

[adelnooh]

Thank you again for this thread "my toys"

[adelnooh]

I have xtool x100 pad 2 and it is very good. It help to program keys in mazda and chrysler all keys lost even when ECU is changed which i heard it cant be done by lonsdor k518ise.
My friend has obdstar x300 pro3 and he sell it because he face many problems with ford cars (waits 10 min then nothing). Also toyota middle east H all keys lost cant be done.
Obdstar is excellent in marketing and updates which most of times include features not working like the last update in volvo which i heard from internet that it doesnt work too.

[Stelaras26]

As for the OBDSTAR X100 Pro ,I am still crying and regreting the 320USD i gave to buy this device.
I do not Not recommend.!

[PocketHero]

Ok, had to update a bit, and removed the unwriten keycutters part. If I get some new toys, they will be introduced here.

Oh, and some pics for fun:524969524970
524971524973524974

[SMP7]

I have xtool x100 pad 2 and it is very good. It help to program keys in mazda and chrysler all keys lost even when ECU is changed which i heard it cant be done by lonsdor k518ise.
My friend has obdstar x300 pro3 and he sell it because he face many problems with ford cars (waits 10 min then nothing). Also toyota middle east H all keys lost cant be done.
Obdstar is excellent in marketing and updates which most of times include features not working like the last update in volvo which i heard from internet that it doesnt work too.

Hello, is there any details for the failure of Ford, volvo and the middle east H chip smart key(all keys lost)?

[crazylou2017]

Hello guys!

We are running a small locksmith shop, and it makes me allways a lot of thinking about getting something or not, thats why I wrote this post.
I will try to tell what kind of key programmers (and other hardware) I have, and what they are good for.
I don't think that it will be better than others wrote about, but I have some experience using 'em
Sorry for my bad English, but I never learned this language, just (mis)using...

Key programmers:
- CK100 (V99.99)
-SKP900 (V5.0) Updated
- SBB2 (V2017)
- FVDI
- AVDI
- Tango
- SuperVAG
- Lonsdor K518ISE + SK-LT (Newest available) Updated
- Super VAG K-CAN 2
(and lots of cheap tools like Op-Com, 4in1 (Ford, Mazda, Renault, Nissan), VAGcom etc. They were too cheap to not to buy, but I don't use them.)

Eprommers:
- XProg-M 5.0 (chinese version)
- Orange5
- VVDI Prog 4.6.7 Updated
- Rosfar 3000 v7.8s
- TL866A
- AK90+ 3.19 Updated

Key cloners:
- ZedBull (Chinese version)
- Handy Baby + JMD key Updated
- RW4 Plus + M-box

Remote programmer:
- KD900

If theres any kind of questions, I'll try to answer as far I can.

Let's see the details:
- CK100:
A must have. Ideal to use it with SKP900. Cheap enough to have one, and sometimes it does wonders. Nice and easy to use, has 1032 tokens when you get it. Cheap token refill, and charges in 50% no tokens. I've a pdf on my phone with the compatibility list, so I can allways check if it can do the car, or not. Sometimes it does the newest cars too, for example a 2016 Ford Flex with smart keys. I had to buy an old Daewoo converter to it, but that's all. Has some limited pin-code tools, but don't wait for wonders. There are no update functions, but who cares for this money ;)
You can get it from $70 with free shiping

- SKP900:
Good tool. Ideal to use it with CK100. The 1st one, what come with special adaptors for Hyundai, Kia and Honda. Does remote programing too, what can come handy often. With compatibility list on my phone, I can always know when it is good for the wehicle. It is rumored, that there won't come out more updates after 5.0, but we will see. If you have to deal with expensive cars (Jags for example) it can do wonders when updated properly. It has a free token system, but you need from time-2-time to refill it via internet - thats the most irritating point of the tool. You can update it via PC program - it is very slow, but it is worth to wait. Better pin tool than the CK, but nothing extraordinary. You can get it from $320 with free shiping
Update: It seems to be dead now - http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/648751-SKP900-Server-Down-Dead-no-more-Tokens (http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/648751-SKP900-Server-Down-Dead-no-more-Tokens?highlight=lonsdor)
I think I don't have to change my mind after this sad news, because we lost only the updates and the token system, this toy stays usable for 2-5 years - depends on the cars age what you have to deal. Its price will be lowered in a half year, or you can get it without tokens on ebay almost for free

- SBB2:
A must have. I got it for last x-mas from me :D It is not so easy to use for the first look, but it has oddometer-correction tool, and can use .bin files or read directly from an eprommer. Has the same connector-collection as the SKP, is meant to be the next generation. It is said that it has all the function of the CK100, but I've found lots of diferences. Another advance is that it can read and delete trouble codes (DTCS), and clear oil change periods. This didn't work on a 2010 Kangoo II. It can be updated via internet, never tried, but it is said to be working. Better pin tool than the CK, but nothing extraordinary. Cheap enough for its knowledge, you can get it for $140 with free shiping.

- FVDI:
Cheap solution for the poors. It is the chinese clone of Abrites, with limited abilities. If you want to buy it, then try to get an older one, because the new ones are the clones of a clone. I don't want to waste time on detailed description, it can help a lot or freezee without any marks or destroy the connected car's parts - but it is cheaper than cheap, you can get it from $100 with free shiping.

- AVDI:
Professional tool for professionals (only). The best thing what you can have for programming and so on - for a lots of money. If you are a professional, you can't do your work without it: does a lots of cars via OBDII, what other tools can't (Benzs, Jag XK, various models of VAG group, aso). A class of its own. The prices are high enough to wait out the promotions (x-mas, aso). For the beginning buy only that module, what you mostly need, and buy the other modules when you can't avoid it. At the moment the Benz module is the best on the market what you can buy. Full package costs more, than $30.000, yearly subscription €200.

- Tango:
Another must have. It is modular like AVDI or TMProII, with limited free functionality for each manufacturers. The whole BMW package is free, so you have to get it if you have to deal with Beemers. To be honest it has lots of weak points, but the documentation what is included makes it worth to pay for: pictures of the devices what you have to look for, sometimes with location and unmount pics; list of the transponders what you can use to the chosen task; the name of the chip what you have to deal with. Packages are from 50€, you get the activation code in e-mail very fast, but can depend on your dealer. So much from the good side, let's see the weak points: It comes often, that you can't open the .bin files for their name, just have to find out where the program accepts it. For example: Yaris as Corolla, Insignia as Camaro, Cordoba as Polo, Picanto as C'eed, aso. It gives some well-known problems: can't do anything with the RB8 controllers, aso. It is a bit uncommon, that it wants to be updated allways, but who cares, it goes fast enough via smart phone too.
However: you have to buy this to be able to do your work, so take a deep breath, and pay: 1200€ for the basic sw+hw.

- SuperVAG:
Czeh curse upon us. 1000€ without oddometer correction, only for the Volkswagen group. This sounds fine, but they promise 1 year free update - even in September - what lasts only till January. In many cases the program says, that the key programing is blocked, try again later - but no words about how long to wait. The pin tool works rhapsodic: some times great, some times clean time wasting. Another weak point is the RB4/8.
The manufacturer said that the instrument cluster module is a good solution without soldering. My question is only "what is it good for - absolutly nothing"... The module says what to do, and when you follow the instructions, then it ends with an error message. You can try it many times, it won't deliver the needed result, as long you follow the popups. When (after several tries) you try to change, and press "no" instead "yes", then the things begin to change, and you could get the needed result. You could. Tried this module 3 diferent cars, then did the same work with soldering: the result shows that it is much more faster when you do it on the oldschool way.
Another joke is the yearly €160 for updates. Better spend this money on Abrites, it is much more worth of it.

- Lonsdor:
I can't really say if it is worth of its price, or not. I think I got a broken OBD-cable with the tablet, thats why it sometimes works, some times stops with connection error. Have to deal it with the seller, but thats another story. The tool is easy to use, has a lots of functions, in many places with screenshots how it should work. Not a cheap toy ($1400 with the Toyota pack), but I think it could be a good tool for the daily use (when you already bought it). Needs internet connection (at least once a week to check for updates) for some actions.
To be honest I've spent a lot of times to test it for DK, and I think it promises a lot, but now it is too weak in knowledge for this money. But if you already have it, you can hope that they will work on updates harder as a rock.
Update: It seems to be working now (at least with smart key cars). The making of a smart key for a '14 Dodge Charger was fast & easy: the only trick was that I had to chose Journey from the wehicle list. Pin reading and programing was done in 2 mins.
'13 Jaguar XJ: smart key programing in 2 mins
'14 Jaguar XK: chanceless (only Abritas knows this car today)
'13 Megane III Ph2: no pin reading, asks for pin to be able to do programming.
'11 Clio III Ph2 Grand Tour: Nothing. No communication.
2 pcs Astra H: No pin; 4 pcs Astra G: No pin; and a Corsa C: no pin.
'17 Mustang Shelby GT350: It was harder to get out the rubber pad from the cup holder, than the programing itself. Smart key added in 1 min.
'04 Clio II Ph2 30 sec without pin
'10 Megane III Ph1 RS under one minute with hands free cards
'08 Dodge RAM 1500: it toke 5 mins to catch that it has to be programed as it were younger than 2012. With that setting under a minute with pin extraction.
'07 E60 Beemer: The customer had a chinese folding key with 315 MHz and he paid for just the trying - we told him that it won't work - the only thing was that we had to re-activate the original keys. I think it can be done when you use the factory diamond 868 MHz keys.
'13 Dodge Charger smart key OK
'15 Ford Edge remote key OK, under 2 mins.
'04 & '06 Megane II: under a minute, normal cards
'15 Dodge Challenger: under 2 mins OK
Won't work with the Transit Connect variants (small furgons), neither Custom, Passenger, Tourneo. Tried only 5 of 'em from 2006 to a 2016 Eco Flex - no communication, or connection lost after reading the VIN. You can try it as Focus and Fiesta too - the result will be the same. I've made the programming mostly with the SKP900.
'15 Chrysler Town & Country under 30 secs with pin extraction
'11 Ford Transit (Normal big one) under 2 mins with AKL solution
Strange, but true: If you chose AKL @ Transit, then you can program only one key too, the difference is that the remote controller will be disabled, and the immo LED won't switch off, but you can start the car. Tested @ my mates transit, worked fine with only one key fine for 3 days, then was the second key added, because he hated to open the backdoor with two turns to open direction on the driver's door. When I added the second key, the remote began to work again (was added before teaching key).

I think it is a good tool if you have to deal with smart keys - if pin is needed and the Lonsdor can't deliver it I don't try again when i get the codes.

- Super VAG K-CAN 2:
Just to solve the RB4 / RB8 problem by Audis. Cheap enough to save you in such situatinos. I got it 2 weeks ago, but had no possibility to try it. With free shiping only 70 bucks.

I don't know how others think about that situation when you can't read out the content of a chip, but I swear to myself that it won't happen again. That's why I have so much eprommers, just to avoid such situations.

- XProg-M:
Good tool, but not necessary to have (or get a chinese one). It was the first one what I had, but you can find where it leaks sooner as you could think. It was and is a very good eprommer. Very good if you have to deal with Motorolas, but not so universal than the O5, or the VVDI Prog. If you buy the original one, it can be expansive: €2000 for the full set with all the sw authorization and connectors, but you can get the chinese clone of v5.5 from $50.
Warning: The cheap version can cause troubles, because it is built from cheapest parts. Sometimes 0.01 V difference can cause expensive troubles

- Orange5:
A must have. You can't avoid to get it if you want to do the car work seriously. Good for EEPROMs, MCUs, has a good Immo-content. This immo-part can be very helpful: in many cases you have only to solder some vires to the PCB, and you can read/write the needed content. Contains tons of pictures of immo-boxes, ECUs, and other PCBs; chip pinouts, and lots of useful informations. The basic kit costs only €350, I suggest to pay a bit more, and buy all the needed connectors with the basic kit: SOIC8 DIP8, SOIC8 14 soldering, SSOP8, Lead whith clips POMONA SOIC8 & DIP8, PQFP52 PQFP80, TMS374, 912 908 and 705E6 in-circuit leads, HC11ES and 05B6 WDT VW chip connectors (be getle with 'em, otherwise you have to buy a new one after 5-10 uses), ST62xx, 908AS60/AZ60 QFP64, all Motorola connectors. You will see how often do you use this connectors, and you can re-order the frequently needed ones.

- VVDI Prog:
The best 2nd eprommer what you can get (for moderate price). Mostly used for Beemer and Benz in our shop. Not too expensive, but easy 2 use. I bought it when we had difficulties with a Beemer and the problem was solved in no time. Has good pictures for in-circuit-use, and needs less connectors as the O5 for the daily use. A bit uncommon look, but you can find everything if you look with open eyes ;) Free updates and compatibility with all other X-Horse product. With free shiping costs $400, thanks to its origin no clones are available.
Update: It f**kked away a '08 W169 A class's flash. Toke a lot of time to repair it. My dealer said that it can happen often @ Benzs. Maybe the only way to avoid data loss is to push the "Read ID" button first. If the identification is ok, then you have your chance (tested on a '11 W245 B class). Other mistake was made by a CAS4 reading of this eprommer. Can't tell ya more about this just readed about it.

- Rosfar
To be honest never used this tool. I'm pretty sure, that it has its potential, but better don't spend money on this except you get it used around 50-100 bucks. Has no support, the original company went bankrupt, and the new owner does nothing, just sells the existing stuff for €1000. It was a good tool 10 years ago - but now it is overaged. I can't really tell why I bought it (because it was cheap and supports Beemer), but God only knows when it can come handy. Works with EWS1-4, CAS1-2.

- TL866A
Cheap chinese toy, has 24 connectors. Bought it when I couldn't find a TTL connector to the exsisting ones, and my dealer was on holiday. I got it within a week, seems to be correct enough. Since its arrival I used to it only once to test it. The binaries were the same readed by TL & O5, so I put it back to its box, and not used anymore. As far I see it is a perfect hobby tool, costs only $40 with free shiping. When compared with X-Prog I would prefer the other eprommer, or buy both of 'em (only the cheap version!).

- AK90
Too cheap to not to have it if you have to deal with old BMWs. Excellent EWS tool, makes everyone happy: the customer can get a cheap remote key, and you can make fast profit. Has plug-on-chip connectors, what are doing its work perfectly if you remove the protecting resin from the chip pins. Does all EWS protocols, but be cautious it can delete the 2D47J content.
You can get it from $25 with free shiping.
Update: Since a half year or so it gives the next generation of the tool called 'AK91(+)' around $400. Just don't spend your money on this, a lots of devices know the EWS 4.4 programing for a better price
Another extension is the X-Prog, R270 and AK90 adapter for EWS 4.3 & 4.4. Needs no soldering, no on-chip-reading, you have only to fasten the PCB in it, and you can read and write the datas. The price is approx $35 with free shiping - I think it is worth to get it for hobbist and pros too

Key cloning is one of the most important part of our job. My policy is "better cloned as programed", because a cloned chip works for sure; while you can have lots of unexpected errors when you try to add a new key.

- ZedBull
Good tool, but overaged. I have the cheap Chinese version, and have downloaded the EFfI sw to be able to use all functions of it. Cheapest way to clone, but has its own limits, whats are easy to reach with ID46 and 48 chips. Nothing to risk with its $20 price (mostly with free shiping), but don't take it too serious ;)

- Handy Baby
A must have! At the moment it is the best handheld cloner, what you can get. With the JMD key expansion it can save you with ease when you have to deal with VWs - even in AKL situations. It is not a wonder weapon, in practice it needs time for calculations (some times 45 mins), but in the meantime you can cut the key, aso. Never tried with G-chips, so I can just tell ya that it is said to be working. Has built-in batteries, and you can always charge it from your car - ideal tool to take with you. The special transponders are cheap enough to save you a lot of money compared to the RW4, and the main unit costs only $350, the JMD Key box around $250, and the G-chip authorization (if not included) $80, always with free shiping.
Update: They stopd selling the JMDD, JMD6, JMD8 chips, instead of 'em you can buy Blue or Red King Chips. The blue one is for everything except ID48 for the usual price, the red is for ID48 much expesiver.
Some news in the following threads:
http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/656299-TK5561A-chip-for-handy-baby-to-clone-mazda-ac
http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/656364-Handy-baby-transponder-cloner-success-rate

- RW4 Plus
For professionals(only). It is made by Silca, that means it is expensive. I bought it together with the M-Box (in a special promotion with 10 ID48 and 40 GTI chips), when my Handy Baby couldn't clone the key of a TT. It works with special devices called "snoop"s, one for ID46 and another (M-Snoop) for ID48. It needs internet connection for calculating a 48 transponder, can take 20 mins or more for the whole procedure. Works only with the expensive Silca transponder chips, so I try to avoid its usage if possible to save profit. Good point, that you can power it from your car or from AC, but its size is too big to take it always with you. Its price was (in special promotion) €2100, ask your locale dealer about promotions - otherwise it can be €3000 or more with ease.

In our profession you can't overcome the remote key fobs, so there comes the best solution what I could find for this...

- KD900
Another must have. It can save your a$$ in the most important moments, so don't hesitate - innovate! :D With PC sw for that cars what are more difficult as the others it works fine, can save you a lots of money 'coz its remotes are cheaper than the originals, and are easy to code 'em for almost every car. Usually I don't have anything else for the VAG group, in rare cases I replace the KEYDI head with original Audi (for the logo) and the customer has a cheap Audi remote, we have our profit. This tool is good for everybody: the cheapest for own use, the 900 for pros.
You can buy the KD stuffz from $25 (Phone version), the 900 costs $230 with free shiping. Remotes are available from $6.5/pcs

So much for now ... In the next post I will introduce some other tools what I met, keep on checking ;)
Today confirmed with Lonsdor, the engineer responses:
1. '13 Megane III Ph2: no pin reading, asks for pin to be able to do programming.
Because Type 2 is only suitable Clio after 2011 year, other models can't enter type 2.
- Will soon update Megane, Fluence, Scenic, Latitude key programming need no 32-bit code and password. And 11 Clio key programming need no welding and need no password.

2. '04 Clio II Ph2 30 sec without pin
- You can't enter the Type 2, only Clio after 2011 year can enter.

3. '07 E60 Beemer: The customer had a chinese folding key with 315 MHz and he paid for just the trying - we told him that it won't work - the only thing was that we had to re-activate the original keys. I think it can be done when you use the factory diamond 868 MHz keys.
- K518 can't support EWS system

4. Won't work with the Transit Connect variants (small furgons), neither Custom, Passenger, Tourneo.
- K518ISE doesn't support Ford MVP car so far.

5. Tried only 5 of 'em from 2006 to a 2016 Eco Flex - no communication, or connection lost after reading the VIN. You can try it as Focus and Fiesta too - the result will be the same. I've made the programming mostly with the SKP900.
- This system should be the same as GM Buick Hideo, you could have a try.

[PocketHero]

3. '07 E60 Beemer: K518 can't support EWS system

It is CAS 3...

But however: really thanks a lot for this infos ;-)

[crazylou2017]

It is CAS 3...

But however: really thanks a lot for this infos ;-)
Yes, It should be working if you try to use the factory diamond 868MHZ key instead of the chinese 315MHZ key.
You are welcome, it's my pleasure if I can help you. :)

[dimet]

PocketHero (http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/member.php/525661-PocketHero) one question. Can SBB2 program the key for Audi A4 RB4 and RB8 table?

[PocketHero]

"Official" info, never tested:

Sorry, this was the mileage correction list:

VAG vehicles…test ok:

Audi A4 2007 ok
04 audi a4 rb4 OK.. Around 10min
Audi q5 2011 ok wait 15 min
Audi A4 RB4 2004 OK
A3 2005, Fujitsu – OK
04 audi a4 rb4 OK.. Around 10min
Audi A4 2004 OK… ….
Audi A4 2007 RB8 OK
-audi s4 2008 is ok working
-A3 2007 – OK
-audi A4 …2013 perfect ….8 min.

Pin & keyprog:

-Audi a4 2006 rb8 dash diesel engine read pin from ecu Ok
-2002 Jetta add key FAIL (vehicle not supported msg, cant even read pin code)

For this kind of jobs I would prefer Super VAG K-CAN 2

[dimet]

I need for keys programing . For mileage correction i have digiprog 3.

[PocketHero]

Then $70-80 solves your RB4-RB8 problem ;)

[PocketHero]

Today's updates:

The TMPro2 part is writen, nothing else matters :P

[Droidkiller]

Hi from Hungary!
I need help with 2014 Dodge Ram 1500,old RHF module and ignition switch are water damaged,new parts are arrived,but need pin to reprogram.Can you help,with vin to pin,or what tool is the best for pin decoding?

Thanks!

[PocketHero]

Ok, everything fine: Abrites and Lonsdor is the answer.

[taxo1965]

Skoda Fabia 2012 Johnson Controls 95320 not key programmed
Read dashboard correctly 5J0 920 801H
Read saved eeprom ok.open file all 000000000000
Obdstar x300 not connect

[PocketHero]

I can't believe that this is the good thread for this question, but I think you did something wrong...

[Friends4eva]

Hello brother,

Im looking to buy some tool that can renew TOYOTA Smart keys,

It seems that Tango PLus does the job nicely but I've stumbled upon another great tool MK3, ( seems it does reset other types smart keys too)

So my question is , what is the cheapest tool I can buy to get the job done?

Comparing above mentioned 2 nice tools, which one you recommend?

Thanks

[PocketHero]

another great tool MK3

Hello m8!

Jusk one q: what is that mk3? bcoz it isn't the full name of it. I can give you all infos what I know or can found only then, when I know what to lookin' 4...

The cheapest tool for Toyota key learning is the Toyota Smart Keymaker (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-Quality-EOBD2-Key-Programming-For-Toyota-Key-Maker-Smart-Add-New-Key-Safe-Security-Fits/32818197797.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.47c44c4d6ZV RRa) for nice $10.26 with free shiping, but it has limited abilities, so wouldn't trust that it can renew ur remotes.

Normally I would recommend VVDI Key Tool with the renew adapters, or something like it. If you wanna make money, then you have to invest into a tool that may be expensiver as you think for the first look, but when you can trust it and use it in a long term, then it would make you a good profit.

[PocketHero]

Ok mates, maybe somebody will get some advance from the following post.

This time I bought some nice cheap stuff to play with:

- UPA 1.3 Eprommer (Chinese version)
- Renault Com Bluetooth adapter
- Lexus/Toyota 4C/4D key programing adapter
- MVP Key Programmer v16.9 (AD100)

MVP v16.9 / AD100 key programmer:
How to waste electronic components... It was tested on many-many cars, but wasn't able to do 'em. The only exception was a 2006 VW Polo, where it could program a transponder. There are a lots of special connectors to it, but as far I see this is a clean waste of money. The CK100 is much more better, and costs less than the half of the AD100's price. You can get this crap for $125 with free shiping, but please don't waste your money on this.

UPA 1.3:
A must have tool. If you look around in the forums, you will always meet with it, because it knows a lot, and is damn cheap. I think it is a must have, because there are many chips listed in its database, what you can not read with Orange5 or VVDI Prog. It is a bit tricky to install the 1.3 version, but if you look around here in DK you can find a solution easily (http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/527879-UPDATA!-UPA-to-1-3-clone!). It has a better monitoring function as the usual ones (voltage, signal strength & everything else). I think it is easy to fall in love with it, if you can accept the missing extras: It won't tell you witch adapter to use like the O5 & VVDI does, but has such extras, what the others not: Oscilloscope function, live monitoring and so on. Works slower as the others, but the result is first class.
The price is around $70 with free shiping, and I think it is cheap enough to get one just for emergency purposes too.

[rzone]

Cheapest tool to write transponder on vw 2006 + ?

[PocketHero]

Sorry for the late response, I tried to collect my knowledge about this simple but very complicated question...

I would say FVDI 2015 - 2018 models, because they have the biggest chance to do the task for the lowest price. The main problem is to avoid the usage of fly server, what frequently kills the FVDI boxes. It costs from $120 to $333 (depending on the type, 2015 is the cheapest) with free shiping as usual.
I can swear that it won't do all the cars what you met, and I am pretty sure, that it will kill something sooner or later. You can look for alternatives, but there's no good alternative for the same price. The VAG group is the biggest un nowadays, so almost every programmer can do something, but nothing is good enough to could swear that it is a good alternative to FVDI, or it costs a lot more.

The SuperVAG could be an alternative, but you can't trust it, makes too many mistakes for a lot of money (€1000), and not even the CEO could answer my questions - when is it planed to work properly, or at least when will it do all the pre 2010 modells. Got no answer.

Someone told me, that the T300 is good for VAG vehicles, but I couldn't check it myself.

If we don't look at the material side, then Abrites is the best solution for the VAG group, or a mixture made from all the programmers what you have.
In AKL situation we try first the Handy Baby snoop, you can hear if it can do the task or not. On the second place is the SuperVAG tried mostly without success. Then we try it with FVDI, and then all the other machines. If we have time to play around, then we begin with MVP and T300, while they are tried we can check the compatibilty lists of other machines (CK100, SBB2, SKP900, Lonsdor, etc) or continue the line with the RB4/8 programmer.
When we have to hurry, then only a "fast" try with SuperVAG, then unmount and solder. This is the fastest way we could find to avoid time wasting. In this case you could use chinese eprommers (including the O5 clone) with Tango clone - maybe thats the cheapest what I could imagine.

I hope I could help you to make your choice ;)

[bocaje]

Hello.
Very good threat. Thanks.
Can you help in any feedback on H108 PSA Obdstar?
Mainly about key programming and pin reading.

Regards

[fabianlm]

Hello mates! I'm relly happy to read abou your toys. I also have some toys (but only chinese version), but I can work a little with them.
I have :
- BMW ICOM,
- Op com 2012;
- VCDS 182
- VAG Can PRO;
- Ak90+
- FVDI 2015;
- FNR 4 in 1 (it helps me very well on some Renault untill 2009 )
- Kess & Ktag,
- TL866 Mini Pro;
- X Prog ( but I need help with this, I couldn't install it, I need the drivers, The chinese didn't helped me, didn't send me the drivers, and for the moment I can't use it)
- Can CLIP v 178,
- Wow Wurth.
I'm working on keys repair, Ecu repair, headlights and dashboard modification, a little bit as I know. I wish I learn what else toys I ahve to buy. Many people send me the keys or cards from the whole country, and most of them, they want another key. I want to learn how to clone a key, or a card (for example for Renault).

[fabianlm]

I want to try "True code Smart Interface" from Key Programmers. It's a little expensive ( about 5000 $, the whole package), but I think it's working very fast, for key programming.

[fabianlm]

Also, I want to buy the VAS 5054A, OKI full chip. What do you think about it ? The chinese promises it offers many possibilities for VAG vechicles.

[jackaroo ted]

Mate, I just got rid of my Autokey MVP (chinese clone) because it couldn't read the PIN out of Holden Jackaroo or Opel Trooper or Isuzu Trooper.
So I just purchased an SBB2 in the hope that its PIN reading is better than the MVP?
Any chance you have done work on the Isuzu Trooper with 4JX1 engine (1998-2004)?
Do you know what tool will absolutely work for reading PIN and /or programming Immobilizer?

[PocketHero]

Hello m8!

The question is nonsense, coz if it'll be such machine, then this thread would be pointless.
I think that the SBB won't fulfill your wiShes, but could be a beginning of a beautyfull friendship. [emoji39]
If you don't want to risk too much, then buy a T300, other known alternative is FVDI. Just check the car list, before buying anything.

Br, PH

[Ermakbrat]

well done! spent a lot of time in writing. But when you read the text, you begin to understand that these tools are in your hands, or if you see in the description that they can be useful! Respect the author

[bocaje]

Just to help. Just try key learning on clio 4 2015 no sucsse evento with pin bypass key ok available with Renault ecu tool.


Enviado do meu iPhone usando o Tapatalk

[baddaren]

Hello I swedish locksmith. I am going to buy Orange5 afer reading your excelent review from different programmers. Do I need OEM orange5 or orginal orange5 ? Can you use cables from OEM (chinese clone) ? Greatfull for help. Jakob

[PocketHero]

O5 is cheap in original too, and you can use the oem stuff in it too. It is no difference between original or oem connectors.

[gadliauskas]

helo
vvdi prog where to buy better on eBay or official website http://www.vvdishop.com/ and what's the difference?
how much have I watched the same prices
thanks

[PocketHero]

I think it is better When you get your own Dealer (wholesale company), and you get all possible equipment from them. Maybe it is a bit expensiver Than buying from other sources, but you have a big advantage When you have guaratee issues. Usually I do it on this Way, but I don't care how they solve my problem, my task ends with bringing the toy back to them. If the tool is too cheap, or your Dealer don't sell it, then you can get it from the manufacturer, if possible pay it with paypal. PP protects your money, if you have any kind of trouble (not getting anything or false ware, or God knows), then they are ready tó pay your money back.
If you want to buy something from Aliexpress, you can do it (pay with PP!), Ae cares for your money, you won't be f***ed by the sellers.

I hope I could help [emoji6]

[joker01]

excellent discussion guys !!!
does anyone have experience with obdstar key master dp plus???
I'm thinking of buying it mainly for working with car keys / remote controls

[PocketHero]

does anyone have experience with obdstar key master dp plus???

All bad experiences are collected here (https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Edigital-kaos%2Eco%2Euk%2Fforums%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D6 73771&share_tid=673771&share_fid=4633&share_type=t)

I tried it many times without success. I would better prefer Lonsdor (https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Edigital-kaos%2Eco%2Euk%2Fforums%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D5 63630&share_tid=563630&share_fid=4633&share_type=t), but your decision.

[joker01]

thanks friend ... I read only 10 pages of that post and I have already changed my mind .... ahhahah
I'm new in the car keys world and I'm getting informed well before spending money ....

[joker01]

to work on fiat, vag and bmw keys which tool do you recommend ????
Europe car.....

[PocketHero]

AVDI. Knows more Than the cheap ones, but not almighty.

[joker01]

spoken today with avdi ... basic package 880 euro only diagnosis no keys .....
protocols for separate brands
tonight I read a little about lonsdor ......

[PocketHero]

Quality must be paid mate, but you can get AVDI leased from Wendt...

[baddaren]

Locksmith Jakob Here. I have used MVP PRO and Smartpro, expensive. I have bougt the Orange5 clone, semes to work. And bought Tango Clone, does not work,can not generate transponders. Not even clone id33 skoda key with fixed code, very bad tool. What are you using for reading volvo ECU+SEM dump. Then I can program it with Orginal Tango. What are you using for OBD Programming for volvo, I am looking at albrites and TDB1000, also little expensive. Thank you for great review about tools, it is so helpfull. The chinese people you can not trust. Greatfull for all the help.

[baddaren]

Hello guys. I was thinking of buying Londsdor K518ISE, but they are now strarting to charge 600usd a year for updates! Is Londsdor worth it??

[Ocin]

spoken today with avdi ... basic package 880 euro only diagnosis no keys .....
protocols for separate brands
tonight I read a little about lonsdor ......

Hello mate, great post here !
Can you tell me witch tool do you advice to prog/clone key in BMW with cas3 3+ (e90 e60) ? thank you

[PocketHero]

Hello mate, great post here !
Can you tell me witch tool do you advice to prog/clone key in BMW with cas3 3+ (e90 e60) ? thank youVVDI PROG + VVDI2 Beemer, or Tango + Lonsdor + VVDI Prog. Depends on your budget [emoji6]

[PocketHero]

Hello guys. I was thinking of buying Londsdor K518ISE, but they are now strarting to charge 600usd a year for updates! Is Londsdor worth it??Yes, it is. Don't forget that you wanna earn money with it. No pain, no gain!

[PocketHero]

Ok guys, I've got some new toys to make my life more difficult :D

Xhorse's VVDI Key tool: (https://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/554202-VVDI-KEY-TOOL) A must have
This is the alternative answer of XHorse to the Keydiy stuff. To be honest this programable universal remote idea is so good as it could be, that's why they made another type for the same task. The first thing is compared to the Keydiy X2, what's the next generation tool of KD after Mini, 200 & 900 is the fact, that this revolver-looking toy has a big color display, and can be used without smartphone and internet - however this abilities are usable too. The main advantage compared to a KD900 is the fact, that this tool can clone transponders, and renew used remotes too. Yes, this renewing option is strongly limited, but is much more than nothig, and can come very often handy: just get a new housing for the remote, and make money from the garbage. The transponder cloning is good from some pov it is better than Handy Baby and X2, because it has free G and H chip functions. You need only 2 types of transponders for cloning: CN3 & LKP02. As far you don't try to clone ID48. This toy forces you to clone all ID48s as a 96 bit one via internet, and you know that this function isn't for free...
Maybe it offers less type of remotes as the KD does, but covers the mostly needed models. Sadly they aren't compatible with each others, so you have to decide between KD or VVDI stockings, but my answer to this problem was that I have only B01 type remotes in my car with this tool, and KD stuff in the shop.
As I said earlier, this is a must have tool, you can get it from $260 with 5 programable remotes.

[DigitalBacon]

This thread has been wonderful, I've read and learned a lot so far. I started a thread today asking what would be the best purchases for the US Market not much European cards where I'm at although we do have of course with a budget of $15K to be able to do the most (key programming, cutting, cloning, etc). What's your take on this @PocketHero ?

[PocketHero]

Sozz 4 the late answer

For key cutting when you wanna take it with you then X6, when you want to use it in a shop then Miracle or Condor. Condor only then, when you buy VVDI Benz, just to collect the extra free calculations.
Key cloning and universal remotes: VVDI key tool and/or Keydiy X2 - depends on your needs. The Keydiy is (as far I c) a must have, so I think this could be a good soution.
Dump programing: VVDI Prog and Orange5 as eprommers, Tango for transponder programing - and as backup a TMPro2 without modules just to have the option to save your @ss in the last minute for big money.
OBD programing: Lonsdor made me a lot of 'merican cars, so that's a must have. For everything else AVDI.

That's enough to start your business, and everything else you will see.

[ghostrider72]

Very useful guide mate.
Compare to you, I just started in this business about year ago. Started with Condor Mini only. Than added CX009 which saves me a lot of time on side cut keys. Than added Keyline Falcon for Tibbe keys. And XC002 recently.

I think your post helped me to make right decision about next cutting machine. I was thinking between A9 and Futura which I’m gonna buy this week probably.
Regards

[PocketHero]

That's why I made this matey [emoji6]

[PocketHero]

Ok, it is almost a year later, so let's see the new investments:

- An-san TR 2050 Panther SX (key cuting machine)
- X-Horse Dolphin XP-005 (key cuting machine)
- X-Horse VVDI2 full
- X-Horse Key tool Max
- Renault CAN/K-line tool
- Hex Prog
- Keydiy KD X2

An-san TR 2050 Panther SX: A mechanical key cutting machine - good toy if you can afford it.
This machine was bought just to be able to cut plastic keys, and to duplicate dimple keys if needed. I know it gives cheaper solutions for the same problem, but my An-San Junior is such a great machine, that I could be sure that it will do anything what's needed. The only hesitation was to buy the simple Panther or the SX with the angle-cut option, but after a little hesitation the choice was made - get the better one. I bought it in ELF '19 Bologna from the Turkish manufacturer for 1400 euro - with the normal clamp (without angle adjustment option) that they will send me via post - but didn't got it till today, and couldn't catch the guy via phone or mail who made the arrangement with me.
Besides this bad experience the machine itself is perfect, I didn't regret my choice.
688183

X-Horse Dolphin XP-005: just another automated key cutter, but it is really made to work on the roadside - a good choice
After the X6 I was really happy to have a machine what's more compacter and smaller for the roadside work - but this small thing is a heavy opponent. At first it is heavy because the batteries are built in into the machine, it can cut up to 10 keys without recharging - when you have no troubles with his bit.ch...
It operates from smartphone or tablet or KeyTool Max as usual @ X-Horse, you can use the same VVDI app. The connection was made trough bluetooth as usual. The main problem with the machine is the hit & miss system what's built in as factory feature. Sometimes it won't work. Recalibrate the clamp, cutter calibration and such jokes are coming continously, but it won't cut da damn key. In this cases just switch the app to expert mode, and retry. Usually it helps, but when not then you have to do all the calibrations what's needed. This is impossible without a HON66 blade. If you try to do the calibration with another one, you will get a really bad result. For example: if you do the calibrations with a GT10 key, then you can decode the same blank key only for 3333333 instead of 1111111. To avoid this I've put a HON66 blade and a small hex into the collecting tray. I understand that the HON66 is the broadest available key blade, but why is it necessary to use only that one - neither the Mirace or the X6 does such jokes. Another problem is the bad keyway cuting when you cut an inner groove key. If you cut a VA2 or VA6 blade it makes such a bluff cut, that you can put the key in into the keyhole, but it is very difficult to pull it out. It hapens often when it decodes something that the machine breaks the probe without any reaseon, but next time (with the new probe) it decodes the key perfectly.
However, this machine is good enough to buy one, but only for second one - you can't trust it so much as an X6 for example.
The price is around 2000 USD with the basic accessories.
No forum links, just search for yourself if you want to read more about the machine.
688188

Hex Prog: Another eprommer, but another must have.
This one is a bit uncommon between the other ones what I have, because it is made for in-circuit readings, only the small spiders (8 legged ones) are those what you have to remove for programing. Someone told me, that the VVDI Prog can do the same, but belive me it can't. Just check the lists, you can find the diferences.
It has a good ECU clone/tune module (List of supported ECUs (https://www.microtronik.com/support/downloadfiles/Hexprog_Ecu_Tuning_List.pdf)), can program beemer keys, it has a key renewal function (and much more), and is cheap enough to have it on your desk: just 450 USD when you get it from the official webpage.
688161

Keydiy KD-X2: The next generation of the old KD900, another must have.
There's a big question when you have to choose between the Key Tool Max and the X2. Both toys have their stronger and weaker sides, but I think they are cheap enough to have both of 'em. You need a smart phone or tablet to be able to use all the abilities of the tool, but that can't be a big problem nowadays. As a stand-alone it is almost a bad joke, but your pov will change in that moment when you start the app. Chip cloning, remote making/cloning, factory remote renewal - these are the main functions of the toy. I think you can find here in DK all the infos what you could need for the usage, and a bit more... (https://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/656518-KD-X2-Transponder-and-Remote-copier)
The price is not too high, you can get it from $160 in a starter package with 3 remotes, and from $15 you can get the sniffer.
688166

[tepSIJA]

glad i came across this topic which i read in detail, every post, especially your replies.


what you've been doing for years, I'm just getting started, and thanks a lot for all the writing.


by the way one question, did you have experience with Autel more specifically model im508 or im608, if you did, i would greatly appreciate the opinion

[electronistul21]

Vvdi key tool is out of production now.

[PocketHero]

Sadly I didn't used Autel's stuff before, I can't help you

[PocketHero]

X-Horse VVDI2 full: A good alternative when you don't want to pay for the AVDI modules.
It has VW (Audi, Seat, Skoda, Porsche, Bentley), Beemer and PSA support with key learning and so on. I don't know how other peoples think, but AVDI is and was a good tool - but is damn expensive. The modules what this machine can do were cost more than 10.000.- euros. This alternative is good enough to do the allday work, and costs only $1600 from the official web page. From this year the ID48 cloning is free for all users, don't imitate - innovate! There is only one thing with this toy what irritates me: you have a prompt in the program, that you have to update the software, but if you push on update button, nothing happens. To update the program you have to download & install the new sw as usual @ VVDI Prog, only the firmware update needs the official updatge manager. Some times some functions aren't activated, then you can ask Maartinj (https://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/member.php/218296-Maartinj) for help, or just visit the VVDI2 topic (https://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/482518-VVDI-2-new-tool-arrived) for more infos about this toy.
Update
There's a serious trouble with this toy, in the Beemer section. DO NOT TRY TO ADD A KEY IN AKL SITUATIONS VIA OBD!!! The main problem is that fact, that this thing not simply communicates with the car, but in many cases it forces the car to answer. That triggers an alarm in the car, and it takes this as an attempt to steal the car, and destroys the CAS content. (Check the ISN checksum)
The best solution is, when you take out the CAS and read it on bech, and of course read the ISN from the ECU.
689903

X-Horse Key tool Max: Another key tool from X-Horse, if you want to buy something better than the mini, this is your choice.
I hate when I am forced to buy something, even then when it is a good tool. X-Horse did this with removing the normal Key Tool from the market, now you can make your choice between the mini and this if you want to have updates. This thing is a weird-housed Android tool with good functions, for example decoding keys from photo. This device makes the smartphone unnecessary for the use of X-Horse devices, it can do the key tool functions, can make the key cutters work and so on. The smart key side is strong enough @ X-Horse, but if you need the normal remotes, then the X-2 is much more better choice: the Keydiy usual remotes are easier to get as the X-Horse ones.
This device has an OBDII expander, the 'Mini OBD', what can read out special infos (pin codes) trough OBD, and help to program keys.
You can find more infos about this device here. (https://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/554202-VVDI-KEY-TOOL/page154)
Its price is a bit less, than $500 with the Mini OBD from the official webshop.
689911

Renault CAN/K-line tool: Another tool to avoid buying expensive AVDI modules - another must have
This small toy comes from the northern region, to be preciser from Lithuania and makes everyone happy. It is easy to use, has some support too, and you can get it for 600 euros. When you wanna play with older Renaults then it is a perfect tool, but when you want to make keys for more recent models (like Clio IV or Kadjar) then it can kill the car - on the same way as AVDI does. This sounds shocking, but there is a solution for this problem too: you have to re-syncronise the KVM module with the ECU and the BSI. Sometimes only the dealership can solve the problem, but when you wanna earn big then you have to risk. As you can see on the picture this tool works trough OBD only, has no key programmer device, what makes AKL solutions more heavier to solve. Additional infos you can find here (https://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/523470-Renault-CAN-K-line-ECU-Tool).
689914

[Charli]

Hello,

I want to ask witch tool for copying/clone transponder/remote is good to have for mostly european cars, i have handy baby2, but witch is still a must have like for french cars and germany...

Thanks

[PocketHero]

Hello,

I want to ask witch tool for copying/clone transponder/remote is good to have for mostly european cars

Easy question: Keydiy X2 is the answer. Good remote coverage, more times usable remotes, so you can try everything without losing money.
When you have to deal with smart keys, then you have to buy a VVDI key max too.

[Charli]

Easy question: Keydiy X2 is the answer. Good remote coverage, more times usable remotes, so you can try everything without losing money.
When you have to deal with smart keys, then you have to buy a VVDI key max too.

So it also can do immo 4 for vag cars? Is it with tokens and are the expensive,and good for copying transponders...?

[BeatsByMe]

Another great post! Keep it going!

[Seby_TM]

Hi all,

What information have regarding Autel IM608 ? How good is comparative with AVDI or another tools ? I know AVDI is more better but also more expensive.

I ask you this because I not see discussion here regarding IM508 or IM608.

[PocketHero]

Sadly I don't have anything Autel

[jvinhj240]

sorry newbie question.
KEYDIY KD-X2 means i can clone and make the car start , like adding a key?

[PocketHero]

Yes, but you can't be sure that your clone works until you try it. The same goes for Handy Baby or VVDI Key Tool(s).

(sorry for the late response)

[canoaslan]

Thank you so much, for taking the time and sharing very usefull information about all the tools. Have you come accross any 2015+ Magnetti Marelli Audi instruments, with the 0567 Software, that so many people have not been able to adjust KM on, due to it being very hard to calculate. if so, what tool would you reccomend for it? Thanks again.

[PocketHero]

Another year, another update...

What can I do with all this crap around me?

Let's see what happened:
- Handy Baby II
- CGDI Benz (Monster)
- Abrites (AVDI) update
- VVDI Prog adapters
- OBDstar green frog
- X-horse XC-009 key cutter
- VAG OBD helper

Maybe I will find something else too...

[keyman keyth]

try https://www.arlabs.com/