Vauxhall/Opel CD70 Navteq maps 2009-10 and UK maps 2010-11

[caveman_nige]

I have not had chance to test all these links so if some don't work I will not be aware..

Each set of links produces an ISO that will make a single CD... use a decent quality CD and burn at slow speed using something imgburn or nero if you prefer

UPDATED LINKS


United Kingdom & Ireland
http://rapidshare.com/files/334315194/NAV-09-GB-ierland.part1.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334315518/NAV-09-GB-ierland.part2.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334316476/NAV-09-GB-ierland.part3.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334311149/NAV-09-GB-ierland.part4.rar


Alps
http://rapidshare.com/files/334300696/NAV-09-alps.part1.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334302143/NAV-09-alps.part2.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334301913/NAV-09-alps.part3.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334301888/NAV-09-alps.part4.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334302386/NAV-09-alps.part5.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334298519/NAV-09-alps.part6.rar


Central Europe
http://rapidshare.com/files/334302461/NAV-09-central_europe.part1.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334302474/NAV-09-central_europe.part2.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334302942/NAV-09-central_europe.part3.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334304224/NAV-09-central_europe.part4.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334304959/NAV-09-central_europe.part5.rar


Germany
http://rapidshare.com/files/334320342/NAV-09-germany.part1.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334323430/NAV-09-germany.part2.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334325015/NAV-09-germany.part3.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334325921/NAV-09-germany.part4.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334325683/NAV-09-germany.part5.rar


France
http://rapidshare.com/files/334313272/nav-09-france.part1.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334314392/nav-09-france.part2.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334314472/nav-09-france.part3.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334314683/nav-09-france.part4.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334314920/nav-09-france.part5.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334308572/nav-09-france.part6.rar


Benelux
http://rapidshare.com/files/33625297...2010.part1.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/33627164...2010.part2.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/33627165...2010.part3.rar


Italy-Greece
http://rapidshare.com/files/334577673/CD70_IT_0910.part1.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334577647/CD70_IT_0910.part2.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334577667/CD70_IT_0910.part3.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334577674/CD70_IT_0910.part4.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334573374/CD70_IT_0910.part5.rar


Scandinvia
http://rapidshare.com/files/334573774/CD70_SCAN_0910.part01.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334573661/CD70_SCAN_0910.part02.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334573719/CD70_SCAN_0910.part03.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334573738/CD70_SCAN_0910.part04.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334575558/CD70_SCAN_0910.part05.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334577506/CD70_SCAN_0910.part06.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334577607/CD70_SCAN_0910.part07.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334577663/CD70_SCAN_0910.part08.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334570354/CD70_SCAN_0910.part09.rar


Spain-Portugal
http://rapidshare.com/files/334566624/CD70_ESP_0910.part01.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334566622/CD70_ESP_0910.part02.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334566606/CD70_ESP_0910.part03.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334566599/CD70_ESP_0910.part04.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334566623/CD70_ESP_0910.part05.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334566607/CD70_ESP_0910.part06.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334566584/CD70_ESP_0910.part07.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334566579/CD70_ESP_0910.part08.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/334565732/CD70_ESP_0910.part09.rar

[Mr._X]

Thanks for this. Just 1 problem, although the image works, when I burn it to a disc and put it in the car, it comes up as being an "invalid cd"

Any ideas?

I've downloaded the UK version btw

[caveman_nige]

i used the very same links and made a cd using nero v7 ultra burning at 10x speed on a dvd burner on my laptop.... The blank CD I used was not top quality but still worked fine.. Do you have access to a different cd burner...?

[Mr._X]

I tried IMGBurn Portable and it worked after that-many thanks

And thanks to the OP for the links

[jaksa27]

I tried IMGBurn Portable and it worked after that-many thanks

And thanks to the OP for the links

It thanks.:beer:
You own can for mape DVD90?

[maltezer]

rapidshare have removed uk and irelnd

[komarac]

Hello,

could somebody reupload Eastern Europe?


Thanks...

[caveman_nige]

willsee what i can find and upload them.. I have the UK maps so that will not be a problem.. I will update the first post with the new links when they are done and advise you in this post..

give a me a day or two..

[vevepatronu]

can you please reupload the links? i need most for eastern europe i am from Romania... thanks

[caveman_nige]

The links in post 1 have been updated today...


Alternate new UK links


http://www.mediafire.com/?e05znxmjmtz
http://www.mediafire.com/?rfjtggynzdt
http://www.mediafire.com/?ntn4yjutdfe

These files/links were tested again August 2010 and are still all there and live

[vevepatronu]

@caveman_nige, m8 when you have time please reupload the maps for eastern europe... thanks

[caveman_nige]

@caveman_nige, m8 when you have time please reupload the maps for eastern europe... thanks

the list above is all that was given to me... will have a look around and see if there are any others though..

I am advised that Opel call the eastern europe maps 'Central Europe'.. why not give them a try... not sure what the previous ones were

[Tot eu]

I'm also interested in Romania map, but I don't think they include it in the Central Europe maps.

I'm looking for the firmware update disc 2009-2010 as well. Does anyone have some links?

Thanks.

[caveman_nige]

the most recent firmware update was 10/2007... you can buy this cd from your main stealer for about ?5 or 6Euro or download it from here http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/f118/vauxhall-opel-cd70-dvd90-software-upgrade-disk-81578/

[Tot eu]

If they had it here in Romania, yes, we would buy it. ;)

[mani1]

The links in post 1 have been updated today...


Alternate new UK links


http://www.mediafire.com/?e05znxmjmtz
http://www.mediafire.com/?rfjtggynzdt
http://www.mediafire.com/?ntn4yjutdfe


http://www.mediafire.com/?rfjtggynzdt<<<< that link don't work caveman_nige. can you please reupload please. nav.part2.rar

[caveman_nige]

link seems to be working fine mate.. they had some server issues but i have just checked and its still there and downloadable... if you still have issues let me know and i will move it..

[floppus]

Hi....

Very grateful for what you are doing but I too am having a problem with the second of the 3 links for the UK set.

........rfjtggynzdt.

The 'check link' tab indicates that the links are OK but I can only d/l the 1st and 3rd.

Thanks....

Tony

[floppus]

Re-wind my post above....................

Tried the mediafire link again this morning and D/L worked OK.

All that remains is to try to unrar the files (I guess they'll bind together in a single ISO file) then copy to a CD.

I'll let you know how i get on but I won't be able to try the disc until Tuesday (when my new car with the CD70 arrives).

Thanks and best wishes..... :ciao:

[mani1]

thx for your reply caveman. i also tried today to download part2 and it worked.yes they had some server issues. thank you very much .

[floppus]

Hi.... Unrar'd the files and burn't to discs using Nero.

Tried them in the new car and they seem to work fine. Is there a way to find out the firmware version that is in the cd70 and if these maps that I now have are 2009/2010 and my firmware is not the latest (10/2007) shold I get the latest firmware from the main dealer (only about a fiver in an earlier post).

Thanks all.

[caveman_nige]

I have updated the firmware thread to show you how to discover what level of firmware you have.....

http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/f118/vauxhall-opel-cd70-upgrade-disk-81578/#post465211

[floppus]

Thank you for the tip to find the firmware version.

I now have both the latest UK/Irl and France maps thanks to your kind generosity.

The UK one is tried and tested and works great. I have put the France one into the unit and it certainly seems to work OK when I 'browse' for a destination and certainly seems to display minor roads. However when I put in a destination (admittedly on the south coast near to Nimes) some 890 miles from my home location it goes into 'route calculation mode' and sits there not seemingly wanting to go any further. Could this be because it is having difficulty finding my present location as I now have the France CD in the unit and I am 4 or so miles from the UK 'major route' stored on the CD or is it just a case of being patient because I am asking the unit to find a route that is so long. I should be frustrated if I cannot validate that all is OK and find that there is a problem when I get to France in June and discover that there is a problem.

Thanks again for your help.

[caveman_nige]

i would say it is because you are trying to use it in the UK and that it cannot calculate this as your current location is not on those maps

[badlad1973]

just wondering do i download just part 1 and will this make me a disc of all the uk cheers

[caveman_nige]

no mate, you need to download all the links for the country you require.. rejoin the links together using a program call winrar, you do this buy licking on part1 once you have downloaded all the parts for your country etc

[Othello]

A bit of a noob question here, but do these work for DVD90 as well?

(and if not, do I bump the old thread about DVD90 maps or start a new one?)

[caveman_nige]

You will need the DVD90 maps for that which will be on a DVD image, not these

[craig8944]

caveman, do you know if the UK disc supports Traffic Master Channel?

[yooz01]

Thank you, for this release :)

[gingerninja]

does this work for the vauxhall zafira 2002

[floppus]

I have d/l these uk/irl maps and yes they do supprt Traffic Master.

My previous map version 2007/2008 were the other system using classic fm as the info collection station using 'itis'.

This has been widely reported as giving a more complete list of events and sometimes TM shows less. I find that although this is true many of the 'itis' ones are irrelevant as they are often hundreds of miles from my locality. In fact neither system shows many temporary local issues that you get from listening to local radio traffic updates.

I presume this will work with a zafira 2002 if you have the cd70. You might need a 'firmware' update. Also available here.:canabis:

[craig8944]

Thanks for the info floppus, I have also d\l'd the UK maps, seem to be unable to get Traffic Master to work though, my old disc is 2007\2008 and TMC works fine, however, with this disc no updates are available? Any ideas what I may be doing wrong?

[garyscdti]

you will need to download from these links:-
United Kingdom & Ireland
RapidShare: 1-CLICK Web hosting - Easy Filehosting (http://rapidshare.com/files/334315194/NAV-09-GB-ierland.part1.rar)
RapidShare: 1-CLICK Web hosting - Easy Filehosting (http://rapidshare.com/files/334315518/NAV-09-GB-ierland.part2.rar)
RapidShare: 1-CLICK Web hosting - Easy Filehosting (http://rapidshare.com/files/334316476/NAV-09-GB-ierland.part3.rar)
RapidShare: 1-CLICK Web hosting - Easy Filehosting (http://rapidshare.com/files/334311149/NAV-09-GB-ierland.part4.rar)

The mediafire links are a VDO disc image & do not have the TMC info encoded on them.

Extract and burn the Image with IMGburn The Official ImgBurn Website (http://www.imgburn.com/index.php?act=download)
I tried to use Ashampoo burning studio & failed many times.
Winrar will say in image is damaged if you try & open it with that, but it is not, it just can't read it.

Hope this helps you...GREAT SITE BTW.

[caveman_nige]

does this work for the vauxhall zafira 2002

If your Zafira has a CD70 Navi headunit then it will. it is not car specific, you find these stereos in Vectras, Signums, Astras

[vipdarkangel]

Hello!

can anyone share a link with maps 2009/2010 for romania ??? anioane know if exist a language cd with more langueges for example romanian???

[Kodama]

Hi mate,

Would you kindly re-upload the Benelux image?
I would be most grateful.

[caveman_nige]

Hi mate,

Would you kindly re-upload the Benelux image?
I would be most grateful.

New links for Benelux updated in Post 1

[Tot eu]

Does anyone know if we can use a more detailed map, made for another car? I have a CD70 Navi and the map is rubbish.

I know that BMW maps work for DVD90 unit.

[boeskip]

New links for Benelux updated in Post 1
:giveup: benelux map links still not working... :giveup:

[aspire5600]

:giveup: benelux map links still not working... :giveup:

RapidShare: 1-CLICK Web hosting - Easy Filehosting (http://rapidshare.com/files/336252973/BeNeLux2010.part1.rar)
RapidShare: 1-CLICK Web hosting - Easy Filehosting (http://rapidshare.com/files/336271648/BeNeLux2010.part2.rar)
RapidShare: 1-CLICK Web hosting - Easy Filehosting (http://rapidshare.com/files/336271651/BeNeLux2010.part3.rar)

[byroribelle]

Hello!

can anyone share a link with maps 2010/2011 for italy and Alps ???

Thanks

[garyscdti]

Has any one found any links to 2010/2011 UK maps for the cd70?

[one2one2]

thanx .

[it77]

in need of 2010/11 cd... anybody..

[teerak2uk]

2010 discs for CD70 units

[garyscdti]

Cheers buddy are these the 2010/2011 or the 2009/2010?

[teerak2uk]

fresh links for 2009/2010 but a mate is trying to get hold od the 2011 ones for me

[garyscdti]

OK mate please post on this thread if you do get them will you.
I'm searching to & I will if I find them.

(thanks has been logged)

[s77howard]

Morning guys, do you know if the links above will fix the woman saying 'turn diaganally left' when its actually a normal bend in the road?? very weird?

Then again I do live in cornwall so it might just be confused! lol

:o)

Cheers

[teerak2uk]

Morning guys, do you know if the links above will fix the woman saying 'turn diaganally left' when its actually a normal bend in the road?? very weird?


Then again I do live in cornwall so it might just be confused! lol

:o)

Cheers

Not posssible unless they change it in a software update or new mapping i dont personally use the CD70 but there is an update kicking about but not sure if this will cure it

[hell]

fresh links for 2009/2010 but a mate is trying to get hold od the 2011 ones for me

they are available here:

http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/f145/2010-2011-maps-renault-carminat-opel-cd70-bmw-mk3-vdo-dayton-rover75-vw-phaeton-144810/

[garyscdti]

Any hotfile etc links as I aint got a clue with those.

Thanks anyway Bud.

[garyscdti]

Not sure as of yet if these discs contain TMC & postcodes
Navteq 2010-2011 (VDO-BMW-Opel-Renault) (http://gpsunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?3020-Navteq-2010-2011-%28VDO-BMW-Opel-Renault%29&highlight=cd70)



Edit:- they do not contain TMC info

[hell]

I am sure that the UK map does NOT hold any TMC data, as the tmc version (ITS) has been discontinued. of course other maps (france, germany, austria etc) contain tmc data as it was so far

[garyscdti]

so no matter what source you get the 2011 map disc from it wont contain TMC? What about post codes or is that part of it.

This advert on Ebay says it does contain trafficmaster.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Opel-Navi-CD-70-GB-Ireland-2010-2011-NEW-/140425591405?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CE_GPS_Accessories_Software_ET&hash=item20b2047a6d

So it must have to be a cd70 disc not a vdo disc.

[tramman]

The genuine Vauxhall/Opel ones as last year will contain the Trafficmaster data not TMC as they no longer support this system. The VDO ones are what i'd class as basic compatible discs without any kind of traffic support but they will work for giving navigation instructions and maps.

[rasteiro]

hi guys some knows were i can finde the up date of language or mi cd70 navi portuguese or spanish working weel

tanks in advance

[r8mxx]

How do you find out what firmware you are currently running. I have just bought both update discs from Vx...

[garyscdti]

All you need to know is in this link mate
How to: Update CD70 Software - Astra Owners Network Forum | MK1 - MK6 | VXR | T8 | T9 | Zafira | Astra Van (http://www.astraownersnetwork.co.uk/showthread.php?t=93133&highlight=cd70+update)
Hope this helps.:rock:

[shdsports]

Donloaded Germany navteq opel 2009 - 10 burned CD but not working anybody got any fixes advice

[garyscdti]

use these links for the 2011 maps for
Central Europe
(Switzerland, Austria, Southern Germany, Northern Italy)
http://linksave.in/dl-8a340dba6effb45d83bc31b562a40072
http://linksave.in/dl-f161c842986276d36676c5215d9e67ca
http://linksave.in/dl-29eed6d2bbdf1934a8e5d4f04a73ef29
http://linksave.in/dl-3d9e3cb062ddb51dc51430b7feb943df
http://linksave.in/dl-1edb58e331d8423fa3e149b2eb14be9a
http://linksave.in/dl-9b32083520a7577a4befc164194e17c1
http://linksave.in/dl-adcd6d57f9d1180e0ba413d349a32ddb
http://linksave.in/dl-fe383c86dece22526c6b429ca9b3a338
or Germany
http://linksave.in/dl-b5c1aa56f14504ed5bddcb1817b0fe66
http://linksave.in/dl-fc62e3a068d8ff40ce9074574d30d9d6
http://linksave.in/dl-359d45514ad8a922f4f214ac0aac60df
http://linksave.in/dl-e02abe17a5bf92ece91e451549e3904d
http://linksave.in/dl-5891e521cf3ed63174dd31ed53efc428
http://linksave.in/dl-49d382f72f17c126a193252c771bb8f9
http://linksave.in/dl-92911cac9cee22db641b8a008f4a35c7
http://linksave.in/dl-e67ed77211d9812faca3d9fc66d5ba27
Extract using winrar & burn with IMGburn on slow speed.
:rock:

[Panacea]

Having a problem, downloaded the UK and Ireland maps, burnt to a good quality CD-R with IMGBurn at 4x speed.

However when I put the disc in the navi tray it is saying No CD, Please insert the correct navi disc.

Any ideas?

[garyscdti]

What Navi system have you got?

[Panacea]

It's a CD70 in a Vauxhall Vectra 08 plate.

[garyscdti]

Did you extract the files?
Starting with file 1 right click on it & select extract to here & winrar will extract all the file & create an ISO.

As said above burn with IMGburn at slow speen & you should have no issues. I have an Astra with a CD70 & have had no probs. :rock:

[Panacea]

Yes I extracted the image file and burnt it with IMGburn on x4.

[garyscdti]

All I can say then is try again on a different type of disc.
Although my cd70 will read CDRW's & all type of CDr I've fed it though :hmmmm2:

[Panacea]

Trying again with a CD-RW on 1x burning speed, will let you know.

[Panacea]

No luck at all, here's the error message I get.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7476/photo021l.jpg

And here's the navi system I've got just to confirm.

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6971/photo022z.jpg

I've tried both a CD-R and CD-RW with the lowest burn speeds.

[garyscdti]

http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/images/styles/digital/reputation/reputation_green.gif
Mmmm strange
did you use these links?

http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif
Uk & Ireland 2011


http://linksave.in/dl-288d5f771aa9ec23063bb30554949e5b
http://linksave.in/dl-6771e6a6cd56c4ff1ee05dedf623317b
http://linksave.in/dl-27a659d0fcf14aa52726e0c7687b9afd
http://linksave.in/dl-80bd18d0489e86186b8dfc63d0e2c43e
http://linksave.in/dl-c47a7faf7efc008209995c8610867b17

Other than that all I can suggest is to try & re-download them.

Or get this 2009/2010 map that does contain postcodes & Trafficmaster dynamic data.
Download cd70 2010 from Rapidshare, Megaupload, Uploading, Hotfile, Easyshare and Depositfiles (http://www.warez-files.com/show-cd70-2010-.html)

[Panacea]

I downloaded from the first page the GB and Ireland, I'll try both your links and get back to you.

[Panacea]

Nothing, this time it says No CD rather than Invalid CD.

[garyscdti]

Aint sure what to tell you then pal.

I used both those sets of links & successfully burnt both discs.

[StonedSte]

Thanks for the UK maps they work perfectly :) Btw I used some shiitty Tesco CDRS burnt at 2x using Imgburn ;)

[haussys]

No luck at all, here's the error message I get.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7476/photo021l.jpg

And here's the navi system I've got just to confirm.

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6971/photo022z.jpg

I've tried both a CD-R and CD-RW with the lowest burn speeds.

Try with another cd, I had the same problem, and i change the brand of cd and now it works perfectly

[Bananengourmet]

Hi.

I am afraid part 2 from the Germany map is missing.
Any link?


use these links for the 2011 maps for
Central Europe
(Switzerland, Austria, Southern Germany, Northern Italy)
http://linksave.in/dl-8a340dba6effb45d83bc31b562a40072
http://linksave.in/dl-f161c842986276d36676c5215d9e67ca
http://linksave.in/dl-29eed6d2bbdf1934a8e5d4f04a73ef29
http://linksave.in/dl-3d9e3cb062ddb51dc51430b7feb943df
http://linksave.in/dl-1edb58e331d8423fa3e149b2eb14be9a
http://linksave.in/dl-9b32083520a7577a4befc164194e17c1
http://linksave.in/dl-adcd6d57f9d1180e0ba413d349a32ddb
http://linksave.in/dl-fe383c86dece22526c6b429ca9b3a338
or Germany
http://linksave.in/dl-b5c1aa56f14504ed5bddcb1817b0fe66
http://linksave.in/dl-fc62e3a068d8ff40ce9074574d30d9d6
http://linksave.in/dl-359d45514ad8a922f4f214ac0aac60df
http://linksave.in/dl-e02abe17a5bf92ece91e451549e3904d
http://linksave.in/dl-5891e521cf3ed63174dd31ed53efc428
http://linksave.in/dl-49d382f72f17c126a193252c771bb8f9
http://linksave.in/dl-92911cac9cee22db641b8a008f4a35c7
http://linksave.in/dl-e67ed77211d9812faca3d9fc66d5ba27
Extract using winrar & burn with IMGburn on slow speed.
:rock:

[garyscdti]

sorry
RapidShare: 1-CLICK Web hosting - Easy Filehosting (http://rapidshare.com/files/405867896/Duitsland2010_2011.part02.rar)

[daliborsmazinka]

Try with another cd, I had the same problem, and i change the brand of cd and now it works perfectly

I have the same "invalid CD" error message problem. Already tried few times (different CDs, burning speeds...) Without success so far. I will keep trying and will inform.

[garyscdti]

As anyone found a working copy for the CD70 Uk/Ireland that contains Trafficmaster info NOT the VDO links that are going about.
An image of the actual CD70 disc.

http://i.ebayimg.com/11/%21B%294hdZ%21BGk%7E$%28KGrHqN,%21icEw5rOJeqNBMPYi CBzdQ%7E%7E_35.JPG

[floppycat]

Some two years ago I was pleased to be given links to update my maps for UK/Ireland and France by a kind member of this community.

I am now looking for the later ones for the same locations
UK / IRE and FRANCE for 2011/12 if anyone would be able to point me in the right direction.

Thanks in anticipation of your kind attention.

Floppus.

[garyscdti]

Vauxhall/Opel CD70 Maps 2011/12

Burn with IMGburn at slowest speed.

France:
https://rapidshare.com/files/1987950...12-F.part1.rar (https://rapidshare.com/files/1987950162/vdo2011-2012-F.part1.rar)
https://rapidshare.com/files/1329024...12-F.part2.rar (https://rapidshare.com/files/1329024855/vdo2011-2012-F.part2.rar)

Great Britain & Ireland:
https://rapidshare.com/files/1257984...-2012-GBIR.rar (https://rapidshare.com/files/1257984897/vdo2011-2012-GBIR.rar)

:bounce:

[floppycat]

Thanks for the above. I have taken the above rs files . After unpacking the 2 french files using winrar and combing them the resultant files are too large for an 80Min 700 MB cd.

Should I be keeping them as 2 cd's . If so how do they transfer to the CD70 unit in terms of displaying the data. My present 2008/09 France is on a single disc.

[caveman_nige]

here is an ISO image for the UK 2010-11 maps, I tested it today and it works fine.


http://www.sendspace.com/file/txt6ux

[garyscdti]

how big is the unpacked img file when merged together as 1?