renault scenic non starter

[tonyboy101]

hi all

renault scenic 1.5dci on a 53 plate
customer said car kept cutting out while driving
called aa or rac they code read and told them egr valve
customer booked in with me car now non starter

i have code read code is P0608 control module output A
car has keycard and push button start
put card in press brake or clutch there is a beep from car but will not crank . steering lock comes off and immobiliser light goes of.
have put live feed to soleniod on starter and this make engine crank but it will not fire or run
have checked fusebox on n/s near battery got voltages and does not look as if it has had any water in it
checked all earths on engine
does anyone know if starter relay is in fusebox mentioned
and which wires activate it
anyone come across this fault
any help appreciated

[busaman]

check both of the small black(engine control) relays under the hood.

in fact just change them to make sure.

[cristec]

Hi the starter relay is integral to the switching protection unit which is part of the engine compartment fuse box assembly.
Fuse 3 25A is in the starter energising circuit, but I do not know if this is before or after the relay.
Have you checked the maxi fuses mounted under the engine compartment fuse box.
The energising wire to the starter is fed from the switching protection unit via a 4 pin black plug (pin 3) that is roughly in the middle of the switching unit.

HTH

[tonyboy101]

thanks for your replies

were abouts are the 2 black relays busaman under the bonnet

have checked maxi fuses all ok cristec

[nutloose]

rail pressure sensor faults can cause the symptoms you describe.
What is control module output A connected to?

[tonyboy101]

don't know what it is connected to
would rail pressure faults stop engine cranking?

[nutloose]

they definitely will on common rail astra's. It initially looked like an i*mo fault, but was the 5V sensor supply failure that stopped it cranking.
The ecu carries out a basic safety check before it cranks and if the CR pressure can't be read (4-10bar engine off) cranking is prevented to reduce the risk of hp pump and injector damage

you need more info on control module output A

[Meat-Head]

The ecu carries out a basic safety check before it cranks and if the CR pressure can't be read (4-10bar engine off) cranking is prevented to reduce the risk of hp pump and injector damage


on and off topic, relevant and errevant in one hit:

So what happens if some dumb f*ck runns it outta diesel?
(astra or shitty reno)

[busaman]

there should be a few black relays on the fuse plate (which you seem to have found) near battery try just swapping them the small black ones should all be the same.

a fuel pressure issue wont stop it cranking only from starting if it doesnt see the required rail pressure normally arround 130bar

[nutloose]

even mondeos cause misfires and set fault codes and go limp before running out altogether,
The rail sensor reads 4-10bar on the Delphi sensor when there is no pressure ie before cranking. the PCM has to see a value before it enables cranking.
The astra would crank if you went straight from ign off to crank without giving the self test a chance but it would only crank for about two seconds.
The card start renaults wont let you do that!

"a fuel pressure issue wont stop it cranking only from starting if it doesnt see the required rail pressure normally arround 130bar"

I didnt mean a pressure fault I meant a sensor error.
If the PCM doesn't see ANY value cranking is disabled... a value , even the wrong one will allow cranking.

[Meat-Head]

called aa or rac they code read and told them egr valve
customer booked in with me car now non starter

i have code read code is P0608 control module output A


1) It is possable to flood a diesel
2) unplug the egr sensor, to cause a fault, then plug it back in
3) Had a shitty clio that would not start because it has no oill
in it! Check oil level and/or remove the oil level sensor
if need be remove the oil sensor, put chewing gum in the hole in the sump and put the sensor in a plastic sandwitch bag full of oil!
Clio (with a key) would crank for 2 seconds then stop.

Does dash say "-------" or "OOOOO--" OR "OIL OK" etc?


4) the word on the street seems to be P0608 is something to
do with some kind of drug, naely SPEED

[rideon]

Did you tried to start the car without EGR??you might have one with R=0 ,try without connector and check 5 and 12 volts on the engine...
Not sure about 5 v..........

[cristec]

This model does not have the small black relays that are being mentioned, these are found on the earlier car's.

[nutloose]

Have you tried code reading with something that tells you more than just a code, like CLiP where the DEF will give a reason and freeze will display conditions during failure?
Live data is not just an option when it's like this!

as MH posted the VSS is relevent to your code fault but not enough to prevent crank/start/run...

If you are reading it with something by Chad Valley you might do better having your palm read.

[Ashraf6119]

Hi

This P0608 fault code you got it from engine ECU.

Have you tried Scanning in any other Module like in Instrument, ABS, UCH, Immobiliser. to see if there are any other fault code.

Also can you see in live data what is the clutch and Brake Padel Switch reading.

A faulty Padel Switch can also cause car not to Crank.

Also check the Wiring loom near the Battery there are two wires in that loom one is Orange and other is Yellow if one of it is broken it can also cause symphtoms like yours.


Hope This Helps


Ash

[Printer1]

Hi

Have you checked if rev lights work, as rev/neutral switch will stop it cranking

Been there done that took me about 4 hours to work that one out

[tonyboy101]

hi
i told customer could not find fault
he was going to get rid of the car
he came in to my workshop
yesterday.
he took car to dealers they told him it was the alternator
they fitted it and problem fixed

tony

[steelcityuk]

Hi,

I hope it's OK to drag up an old thread?

I've bought a Scenic 2 (1.9 DCi 130 FAP) that is is behaving just like the car mentioned by the OP. According to clip there are no faults what so ever but it won't crank. Starting is authorised by the injection ECU and the UCH but starting conditions aren't being met according to the UPC. There's no sign of water damage to any of the ECUs and no sign of damage to the loom around the battery tray area. Clip shows that both Brake and Clutch switches are working fine as are the gearbox switches. The steering lock is unlocking and reporting it's status correctly. I won't get a chance to look at the car again until later in the week when I'll be checking over the Alternator wiring then reporting back if it's worked.

Any other tips gratefully received.

Merry Christmas.

Steve.

[justy22]

faulty rail sensor

[steelcityuk]

Thanks Justy, I'll look into that. Do you know if there's a way to spoof a value to get the engine to start or should I just measure it's output and compare to a known working one?

Merry Christmas.

Steve.

[steelcityuk]

Justy you're brilliant! It is a faulty rail sensor, it was reporting as 250 bar despite the engine not cranking whereas at rest my other Scenic (bought to tide me over) reports 4 bar - I guess this is due to tolerances. Unfortunately the sensor is physically different on the second Scenic but I was able to connect it to the wiring loom and get the engine to turn over. I've got a replacement part on it's way.

Steve.

[Meat-Head]

just to add proberbly no use to anybody

loom chaffs on battery box

[genius76]

What you are talking, how will have to pressure if the engine is no cranking this is totally unrelated
Meat-Head is right - power supply fuse relay it is everything that may affect turning the starter

[genius76]

presure can only prevent the engine from starting but it is not from cranking!