Polo 2017 HU162T 8 cuts decoding

[ghostrider72]

Hi
I have here Polo 2017 AKL and I’m struggling to decode locks. Ive check lishi few rimes and reading is correct
42445431
Side cuts all 1
According to InstaCode some wafers needs to be reverted in some machines. Im using Miracle A9 and tried few different ones but still cannot turn the key. Any suggestions on that plz

[comizelu]

Hi
I have here Polo 2017 AKL and I’m struggling to decode locks. Ive check lishi few rimes and reading is correct
42445431
Side cuts all 1
According to InstaCode some wafers needs to be reverted in some machines. Im using Miracle A9 and tried few different ones but still cannot turn the key. Any suggestions on that plzI was playing around with a door lock 9cuts.
On the last cut i was decoding 1 but had to cut 5 to make it work.

Sent from my MI CC9 Pro Premium Edition using Tapatalk

[ghostrider72]

9 cut is slightly different mate

[Manta1600]

I dont think that on Polo must revert something because there isn't side cuts all is 1


I think that your reading is bad - Check clockwise and anticlockwise and also the ignition

[ghostrider72]

No matter how i read it, clockwise or anticlockwise mate, it gives me same readings.

[Manta1600]

No matter how i read it, clockwise or anticlockwise mate, it gives me same readings.

So maybe your machine cut wrong key

[rapidlocksmiths]

its not quite as simple as enter into a machine what you read with the lishi tool , the lishi tool picks and decodes 2 down , 2 up , 2 down , 2 up on r/h drive and 2up , 2 down , 2 up , 2 down on L/H drive
the series is listed as 1 up , 1 down , 1 up , 2 down , 1 up , 1 down , 1 up .

if thats not confusing enough , the cut to code machines all want cuts entering differently , silca futura for instance just wants top track cuts entering .

so the first thing you need to know is how does your machine want the key cuts entering , some use silca format of just entering top track cuts , others want you to enter in instacode format .

so in either case you have to convert your lishi read to the correct top and bottom track cuts of key , then enter to how your machine wants you to do this , ie with silca futura you just enter top track cuts of key.

im in process of doing a photo guide for the magazines for 8 and 9 cut locks at present , once released in near future all will become clear.

[Manta1600]

Today I checked one Polo this maybe will help you

The mashine SEC E9 decoded existing key - 43421243
the lishi decode - 43445223
looks like positions 4 - 5 - 7 are reverted

also maybe position 2 and 8 are posible to be reverted but when is deep 3 I can't be sure

will be symethric if positions 2 - 4 - 5 - 7 are reverted

so in your case maybe - 44421431

[rapidlocksmiths]

sec9 is reading the top track of the key when decoding a key from your data

so assuming your pick and decode pattern was 2 down , 2 up , 2 down and 2 up with lishi then the below is correct

from your example manta your machine wants you to enter the cuts like futura from just top track of key .

so as i say you have to understand your lishi reads 2 down 2up 2down 2 up or vice versa , then write down the configuration of the full key top and bottom track , then know how to input this in format your machine requires .

so you had a lishi read of 43445223 , im assuming that your pick and decode pattern was 2 down 2up 2 down 2 up so would have given , the lishi read must follow the instacode pattern of 1 up 1down 1 up 2down 1up 1 down 1up on tracks

top track cuts 4x4xx2x3
bot track cuts x3x45x2x

so full key of

top track 43421243
bot track 23245423

you now enter this in the format your machine requires , ie silca futura just the top track 43421243 , in your case for sec9 you entered the same 43421243

to simplify this on machines that require just the top track cuts to be entered , decode with lishi which gives you 43445223 and then reverse the cut values in positions 245 and 7 which gives you the complete top track of key which is 43421243 which is what sec9 wanted to decode .

so once you know your machine and how you must enter each cut from each track its quite straight foward , knowing which track your tool is reading so you can write down the full key , then its plain sailing .

so for the OP what he must enter will determine on whether his pick and decode was 2 down 2 up or 2 up 2 down format , then once he has his full key written down , it will depend on how his machine wants the cuts entering into it .

[alex_r_2001]

My eyes and brain are hurting looks like I will be buying a couple of practice locks .... Thanks Rapid for the break down... Can't wait to get my practice locks....

[Manta1600]

Thanks Rapid

ghostrider is it 44421431 the right cut for your machine?

E9 is based on A9

[ghostrider72]

Thanks Rapid

ghostrider is it 44421431 the right cut for your machine?

E9 is based on A9

No its not mate.

[rapidlocksmiths]

ghostrider , ok simple exercise , the key you have cut to 44421431 , put this in your machine and then let me know what your machine decodes the cut key as , this should indicate where your machine is reading the cuts

also double check your lishi reading , did you decode 2 up then 2 down , or , did you decode 2 down , 2up pattern. if so then your decode will relate to

top track 4x4xx4x1
bot track x2x45x3x

if i was to guess on the correct key based on instacode data , then from your decode of 42445431 , then id suggest your full key will be ;

top track 44421431
bot track 22245235

all you need to know is how your machine is decoding a valid key so you know which values to enter , if you have access to a precut valid key , decode this and you will have your answer

looking at manta key and decode , then looking at your decode it looks like sec e9 like futura reads complete top track when decoding , which would make the key he suggested look correct if your a9 reads the same as the sece9 , this is if your decode was correct in first place.

decode the key you have cut to 44421431 to ensure what you cut reads as this on your machine , post a clear picture of the key blade you have cut as may shed light on whats wrong if doesnt match full key above .
pick and decode the lock again , if decoding each position in the direction it picked and you still get 42445431 , then decode again in opposite direction to you picked , if your first decode was correct then opposite direction should read as 24221235 , this will help confirm if decode is accurate .

if your decode pattern was 2 up and 2 down and not 2 down 2 up then the decode will differ ( i mean the grid direction up and down ie top lifter up bottom lifter down) if your decode pattern was 2 up 2 down then things change and your lishi read will equate to ;

lishi read 42445431 if 2 up 2 down rather than 2 down 2 up is

top track x2x45x3x
bot track 4x4xx4x1

this would then be a full key of

top track 22245235
bot track 44421431

so if your machine wants just top track cuts then you would need key cuts entered of 22245235 to cut key

[Manta1600]

easy will be if he enter 11111111 in the machine if the result on the pre cut picture is stright cut in line 1 - that means that A9 is not like Silka

[nazz2]

Interesting topic, this is what futura scanned martin, and what i decoded by 9 cut lishi,( 332 side cuts+ 232525 from pos 4 to 9) ,cut a blade to 332232525 but it didnt work.

[rapidlocksmiths]

that will show exactly what his machine is reading , sadly not all machines give a precut picture , but if a9 does then this will tell you exactly how it wants the cuts entered.

[Manta1600]

that will show exactly what his machine is reading , sadly not all machines give a precut picture , but if a9 does then this will tell you exactly how it wants the cuts entered.

SEC E9 show exact what you enter and cut the same

[rapidlocksmiths]

with your 9 cut nazz , you have miss read side cuts in door on the 2nd position which is common , futura only wants to decode the top track of the key so only wants the top track cuts entered to cut the key so your 6 conventional cuts were entered incorrectly as lishi has given you top and bottom track cuts

your conventional cut readings in positions 4 to 9 of 232525 would have track placement if you look at instacode of

top track x32x2x
bot track 2xx5x5

so full key in positions 4 to 9 will be

top track 432121
bot track 234545

how ever it looks like your lishi tool has miss read position 8 as a 2 instead of a 1 cut , or machine has miss read it as a 1 instead of a 2 , a quick eye read of key will confirm this , i will assume that your lishi tool miss read the 8th position and that it is as machine says a 1 cut

as the side cut decode from the door is hit and miss at best , your best option is buy the 9 cut ignition tool for this lock , as you will decode all 9 positions on conventional cuts , this then allows you to accurately decode all conventional cuts and easily work out the side cuts needed .
on same lock that your futura decoded the top track of the key as 342432111 ( top side cuts as 213 and bottom side cuts of 342 ) , the 9 cut ignition tool ( seperate tool) would have decoded the ignition as 312232515 but in following format

top track 3x2x32x1x
bot track x1x2xx5x5

you then fill in the blanks to get full top and bottom track of key , remembering that positions 1 to 3 only use 4 cut heights where positions 4 to 9 use 5 cut heights and you get a full key of ;

top track 342432111
bot track 213234555

so futura wants just the top tracks entering in the machine , so you needed to enter the top track of the full key 342432111 to cut correct conventional cuts

on futura the 1st 3 cuts on the bottom track of conventional cuts are the same as the top side cuts 213 , the 1st 3 cuts on the top track are same as the bottom side cuts 342 , so you can cut the correct key of

conventional cuts 342432111
top side cuts 213
bot side cuts 342

this differs on ninja laser and machines that use instacode data on the side cuts , silca cards list the side cut values as 1 deepest cut and 4 highest cut , instacode and ninja laser machines list 1 as highest cut and 4 as deepest cut , so on ninja laser and instacode based machines , the side cuts differ , as they will be entered in opposite values to silca card machines , so on ninja laser top side cuts would be 342 and bottom side cuts 213

[nazz2]

Thanks martin, this is a practice lock, the 9cut lishi reads 4 down,5,6 up,7,8 down and 9 up, side cuts when i turned the little tingyon position 1 it read 60,position 2 at the back 60,and position 3 30, i am going to have a read your post and check ,thanks mate.

btw martin when i decoded the working blade futura told me to turn the key twice, so it scanned both side cuts.

[rapidlocksmiths]

the machine will scan the side cuts , but from lishi 9 cut ign tool if in akl situation the side cuts are easy to work out from the conventional 9 cuts. ignition has no side cuts just all 9 key cuts , so far more accurate than trying to work out side cut values from door , as often miss read on sides

on all keys lost i pick door open to gain entry , i then use 9 cut ignition tool to pick and decode the ignition , i then have the correct key in a minute or 2 from the ignition decode.

on spares i just site read the key by eye to confirm machine decode .

[nazz2]

Right , i had another crack at the decoding, you were correct, position 8 its almost near 1 cut, and the sides are now 323, not 332 as stated above.

[ghostrider72]

So I’ve decoded lock again with my and my mates Lishi. Correct reading on my one is
42435331
Now I’ve cut 4 blades. Non of them works
42235335 + reverse
44231335 + reverse
And still no joy with this bastard
Thats last cut on Miracle

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200827/40a5f48cdd4bf1385ef09cf0fdc15da5.jpg

[Manta1600]

So I’ve decoded lock again with my and my mates Lishi. Correct reading on my one is
42435331
Now I’ve cut 4 blades. Non of them works
42235335 + reverse
44231335 + reverse
And still no joy with this bastard
Thats last cut on Miracle

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200827/40a5f48cdd4bf1385ef09cf0fdc15da5.jpg


Try this 44431331

[ghostrider72]

Will do in the morning mate

[rapidlocksmiths]

if your sure the decode with lishi is 42435331 , then reverse the values in positions 2,4,5 and 7 so you get a key to try of 44431331

i finished the photo guides on understanding the 8 cut and 9 cut locks and how to get the top track cuts the machine wants you to enter from the lishi reads and how to work out the side cuts from the ignition decode , verified on 6 new lock sets on each and 1 live vehicle on each with working blade cut for each on ninja laser . these have been sent to tradelocks for their cars keys and locks online magazine , 8 cut guide will be in next online issue and the 9 cut in the following online issue i believe.

[autocarkey]

Dear Ghost Rider. I recently did AKL on a 8 cut polo late 2016. I also could not manage to successfully cut a key on the first visit despite spending a long time on it and with help from a friend.

As it happened one of our neighbours was happy to lend me his 2017 polo for an hour and I picked and decoded both the door and ignition locks and was able to generate a pattern for both locks after comparing the Silca's decode of the actual key. this helped me to make the key for the akl polo.

Can you post the decode for both door lock and ign locks here and I will apply my pattern and see if I can tell you the key.

Can you post decode that you read in each position of both the up going arm and down going arm on each lock. i.e. 16 readings for each lock.

Thanks, Luke.

[ghostrider72]

42435331
reverse the values in positions 2,4,5, 7

44431331
.

That one worked on Miracle A9
Thanks a lot mate. I’ll make a note of that for future

[rapidlocksmiths]

glad it worked

[nazz2]

Can i ask ghostrider, if your miracle A9 cut the side cuts? the reason that i am asking is i had to cut a blade for a 2015 Polo, 8 cut futura scanned the 8 cuts, and told me to turn the key on its side, then after a quick touch, gave no info/numbers to cut, hence cant cut the sides, and obviously it would not go into the lock, i wonder if you or martin can shed some light please,

[ghostrider72]

Yes it cut sides as well. But you need additional adapter for that. Can make you pic tomorrow

[nazz2]

Thanks, i just eddited above post, as you can see it doesn't give info on side cuts.
ps. on futura you use the same jaw as inner cuts.

[ghostrider72]

Cant help on Futura mate as i dont have it

[nazz2]

Thanks mate i will phone Silca tommorow and see what they say.

[Manta1600]

You need clamps like these

https://www.nwkeys.co.uk/Product/silca-56j-hu162-vw-clamp-for-futura-d746461zb

on this Polo you don't need to decode the side B - just put 1 on all positions

[nazz2]

Hi Manta, i have jaw 56 and 57 as per requirement by futura for cutting Hu162 keys but when i cut both sides, it doesn't give me the option to cut the sides,will update after calling silca,thank you.

[Hugh91]

the machine will scan the side cuts , but from lishi 9 cut ign tool if in akl situation the side cuts are easy to work out from the conventional 9 cuts. ignition has no side cuts just all 9 key cuts , so far more accurate than trying to work out side cut values from door , as often miss read on sides

on all keys lost i pick door open to gain entry , i then use 9 cut ignition tool to pick and decode the ignition , i then have the correct key in a minute or 2 from the ignition decode.

on spares i just site read the key by eye to confirm machine decode .

This is good advice.

Do you have any tips for reading the side cuts from only the door on models without ignition lock in all key lost scenario?

[rapidlocksmiths]

im still working on a guide for the 10 cut locks , ive found a number of ways to read correct bittings but no single way yet to read them consistently correct every time , but working on it when time permits

when i crack them i dont do a guide for some time nor share for a while , because as soon as i do a guide the local price cutters and undercutters can do them and the work was for nothing , so enjoy the advantage the work gives for a while first , and normally figure out better ways as i go along.

i did this with va6 , did a guide and rates in my area halved a month later , sharing isnt always good.

also i dont release as many guides now as lishi prices have dropped to rock bottom none of the lishi manufacturers now pay for this as they did in past , also after seeing how tony audsleys work was abused and shared by so many here , everywhere and anywhere , im reluctant to waste time writing these up and writing something else for them to steal and share as they like , they can do the work for themselves in future.

[Hugh91]

Thanks for your reply. I understand that makes sense we all hate the price cutters and it’s jobs like this, where they can’t offer a solution and we are able to quote and land the job for the true amount the job is worth.

For now I am keeping locksets for prox models so at least I have a solution and they can always order a dealer key and swap back locks if they really wanted to.

[nazz2]

Martin is this write up the updated version of what you wrote about 1 year ago in the locksmith magazine? how to identify the new vag locks,etc?

[rapidlocksmiths]

the new guide for 8 and 9 cut was completed and sent to uap tradelocks , i believe they will be running it over the next few issues of the online magazine.

it concentrates on

hu162 8 cut - site reading the key and understanding the key, wafer configuration in lock , picking and decoding the door or ignition , what the tool is reading where on the key , how to build the full key from the lishi read , how to convert the lishi read to the cuts your key machine wants entered.

HU162 9 cut - site reading the key and understanding the key, wafer configuration in the lock , picking and decoding the ignition lock , what and where the lishi reads in the lock , how to work out the full key , how to work the side cuts out from the conventional cuts in first 3 positions and how to enter the format the cut to code machine wants entered.

HU162 10 cut - site reading the key and understanding the key , wafer configuration in the lock , how the cut to code machines want the cuts entered.

the new guides are focussed on understanding the key , the tool and the decode , so to educate rather than spoon feed , its something anyone could have done if they spent some time with locks and keys to understand them , adapt these old skills of site reading keys and any lock can be defeated , so its a bid to get others doing it for themselves .

site reading is a skill so many dont bother with , but it can unravel so much and is so simple to learn , its one of those essential skills many cant be bothered with , yet its amazing what can be worked out from just a lock and a key

much later guides will include decoding the side cuts and door locks on 9 and 10 cut , but i want to simplify this before i release a guide on it and enjoy some time doing the job at proper rates before the price cutters inevitably kill rates once they can do it, though im sure once released someone will repost it everywhere for a thanks on a forum or a like on a facebook group, due to this it will be a while before the picking guides get released.

the old write up was actually written 3 to 4 years ago . when little was known about the series and locks , so updated to be more accurate and up to date , we had 1 of each lock only to develop the tools and try figuring it out , none of them had a 5 cut in them which was why at first a 4 height tool was developed , we had these before they was seen on cars , the old write up was done at this time , so was due an update .

[madaxe]

Rapid your guide to HU62 (?) appears to be out in Cars, Keys and Locks issue 3. It doesnt read too well, I'm guessing whatever editorial there is chopped it about. Looks like the 10 cut guide has been published first, and seems to reference the 8 and 9 cut guide, which isnt in an earlier mag, I checked. I tried reading it last night after a few beers, and was thoroughly confused by it. I thought I'd have another go today sober. I'm not sure the beer was the problem. There is talk of cut heights (as opposed to depths) and conventional cuts, top side cuts, bottom side profile etc. Surely a diagram labelling sides 1-4 and mentioning which side would have been easier. Hopefully this will come across as constructive critisism. Will there be any info on decoding the locks, including side cuts ? There certainly seems to be a noticable difference between how the side cut levers move for different depths.

[Jimmy07]

I’ve spent a fair bit of time on these locks can pick the 8, 9 & 10 pretty quick but on AKL decode is way over my head spend hours at this but struggling to decode.

Biting the bullet and ordering locks with keys so can get this sussed once and for all lol

[rapidlocksmiths]

i just sent them the 3 guides , i cant dictate what order they release these in im afraid , i had hoped they would put all 3 in 1 issue as 10 cut is the last guide of the 3 and it will be easier if read in order .

no i have not done guides yet on decoding the 9 and 10 cut door lock side cuts , and i dont plan on doing so for some time , i did this with va2/va6 and rates halved inside a month , so lesson learnt .

the 8 cut guide they have , details picking and decoding the door and ignition locks , it also shows the wafer configuration and how to work out just the top track cuts required by key machines .

the 9 cut lock guide they have shows the wafer config , picking and decoding the ignition lock with the dedicated ignition tool , how to work out just the top track cuts for the key machine and how to work out the correct side cuts from the conventional cuts to also enter these dependent on which card series the machine uses.

decoding the side cuts will differ tool to tool sadly , this is due to how the side wires are made and are not all the same as hand made and hand finished so never the same tool to tool , i use a number of methods to decode these , none 100% , but enough that i generally get there , but im not ready to do a guide on these yet as still pay well if you can do these . but 9 cut is a doddle to get the full key including the side cuts from the full ignition decode with the lishi 9 cut ignition tool .

[madaxe]

For me, the less that appears in magazines the better :-) As you say the more articles, the more people will drive the price down. Personally I read magazines and attend UK trade shows to see what I'm not going to be making much money on. Usually work this stuff out for myself, lock disassembly and modifying/making tools.