Trim Files for CAT Caterpillar Injectors

[ashkar]

WOW!!! Just with Trim Numbers?

Ok lets be real here for a min.. The injectors you had must have been on the lowest possible trim numbers or was it set to the lowest before the dyno so that when they were then changed to the highest it showed 150HP gain?
The total Gain attainable can be as much as 150HP depending on many factors and the most influential being the Nozzle orifice size.

Acert Trims on 625 or 550 will be lucky to gain 40HP due to the way the factory trims them in the top 30% whereas the older 3406 and C15 etc were trimmed mostly in the 50% range leaving a bigger window to trim up.

The Trim algo uses an and encrypted 4 didget code between 1000 and 9999. However not all possibilities are used on each ECM so for example a C15 will only take @ 1/2 of the theoretical 8999 possible trim numbers. these can then be divided into groups and reduced into some 460 groups. these groups then can be used to Calibrate an injector to flow across the whole RPM and load range possible.
These is NO Magical numbers as I have tested every single one and plotted them. However there is a large window from the lowest to the highest but in 95% of case Injectors are Trimmed from the factory Mid range in the case of a C15 for example so you wont see the HP gain of the magnitude above.

However if we fit a larger nozzle than listed in the Flash file the engine will produce more HP and we can then trim down the injector to reduce its output and lower HP. Depending on the size we chose we could then be trimming in the low 15% of the Injector trim range allowing for a possible 85% Gain by way of Trim allocation.

Most people who claim to do these magical things do their trimming on the dyno. we can all do that and I have done that. BUT its simply bastardising the injector to get it "Close" well as close as you can in an engine. The correct method is to Calibrate the injector on the bench prior to installation and any variation thereafter is mechanical and as such the injector should not be altered to compensate for the mechanical defect.

Yes, this was on a 6nz, so you know it was possible.

[Far_Call]

This ^ is wrong as well, Every caterpillar orfice on all 3406E models are .008. (Should never be changed).

not a good start as Your very first line is grossly wrong as there are several varying Tip sizes use on 3406E!!!

If you change the orfice size: you lose weight and inertia. < This means its NFG! Ask a mechanical engineer or me =split tips.

Split Tips ? mmmm Cat actually Published a Service Letter outlining the serial numbers of the tips that split due to manufacture and the hardening process used which has changed several times over the years!!!

I've seen your posts Far_Call/ Greg/ Western Diesel&Performance. On Truckers Page. You leave alot of misleading Information. for eg truckers page! "The Injector ECODE is not the trim" Well in fact it is. Eg. 3389<ecode>[/B]
0-9
1-8
2-7
3-6
4-5
5-4
6-3
7-2
8-1
9-0
[B]ecode 3389 = 6610

Why don't you simply Subtract the E Code from 9999 which gives you the Trim Code? Its not so complicated and been known for many years. where is the misleading information?????

Your obviously on the right page if you wanna get educated!

Still nothing so far LOL

Caterpillar EUI***8217;s using ACERT injectors use 5 separate injection events all controlled electronically.
1. Pilot Injection
2. Main Injection Step One
3. Main Injection Step Two
4. Main Injection Step Three
5. Post Injection

Rate shaped unit injectors can be adapted to use three different injection rate profiles to achieve either good fuel economy (lean), good emissions (clean), or optimum power (mean).
Trim Codes
Since variations between flow rates of injectors can occur due to manufacturing tolerances, identical injectors can deliver different quantities of fuel despite the using the same length of PWM signal. This produces emission problems and cylinder imbalance conditions. To correct this condition, manufacturers will flow test all injectors and compare them against a nominal standard value. Depending on whether the injector flows more or less fuel, a numerical value is applied to the injector. This trim code or E trim value is entered into ECM injector data where adjustments to fuel flow can be made electronically.

This is a Quote from the Patent which is readily available to anyone who has the internet to do a Search.. Nothing we all haven't read many times many years ago.

[Gear head]

I know he knows im not saying that he doesn't lets just not fight he has nothing to prove to anyone. It's just lack of understanding. There is no hard fealings with me on my end alligator.

[ashkar]

I understand why you don't want to share but it don't hurt to try.

Because how many custom injector builders exsist in Canada and the US with proven results and a product that isnt junk.

[Gear head]

I know it is what it is and I understand no hard feelings.

[Alligator]

Far_Call your really gonna quote me? why don't you quote the rest of my posts. First off I'll start off with saying I'm just gonna give it you straight and this is not an argument or debate.
Your only gonna make your self look bad. I build injectors for friends and suppliers. I don't need to build injectors for daily truckers that come off the road...

[Alligator]

Gear head. Were all good. You just know what to expect when you ask me a question thats all.

[Alligator]

This is the link where Greg/ Far_Call said "The E Code is not the trim Code!" Cat C15 NXS Injector trim files
Far_Call:"Why don't you simply Subtract the E Code from 9999 which gives you the Trim Code? Its not so complicated and been known for many years. where is the misleading information?????"
now you want to share?
Must of thought you had money in the safe with that. Oh, I now figured out you lack the education that I have. Thats alright I'll tell you why you don't subtract.. No I won't... It's all algorthim so its a code that needs to be decoded. no subtract and add.
Please quote the data!!!!

[Far_Call]

Far_Call your really gonna quote me? why don't you quote the rest of my posts. First off I'll start off with saying I'm just gonna give it you straight and this is not an argument or debate.
Your only gonna make your self look bad. I build injectors for friends and suppliers. I don't need to build injectors for daily truckers that come off the road...

I don't do Injectors for a living either and do it mostly only for Performance Trucks.
I can keep quoting as much as you like but what's the point? I've seen enough in the first reply to give me an idea of your direction.
Its not hard at all for anyone to get their head around these injectors with little more than a Good test bench, Cat electronics and an Oscilloscope! Throw in a few patents and some grey matter.

I must admit though its nice to hear someone in Canada is having some success and providing a better injector than CAT.

[Alligator]

Also on that website you will find someone either Mr.Haney or Far_Call saying you can not put the same file in all six holes.
Then Ashton called me up and asked a quick favor so I sent him a pic! In that pic you could see the same file in all six holes. I don't recommend this!
Was just proving a point I can make it say what ever I want... I can make every injector put out the exact same amount of cc +/- 0.10cc on a test bench. Therefore I can put the same file in all six holes and have a smoother running engine with 2% spread on ET! But do I? The answer is NO!

[Alligator]

[QUOTE=Far_Call;1839265]
I can keep quoting as much as you like but what's the point? I've seen enough in the first reply to give me an idea of your direction.
QUOTE]
I said quote the data! So, what is my direction?
I'm sharing info. Whats your direction?

[Far_Call]

Also on that website you will find someone either Mr.Haney or Far_Call saying you can not put the same file in all six holes.
Then Ashton called me up and asked a quick favor so I sent him a pic! In that pic you could see the same file in all six holes. I don't recommend this!
Was just proving a point I can make it say what ever I want... I can make every injector put out the exact same amount of cc +/- 0.10cc on a test bench. Therefore I can put the same file in all six holes and have a smoother running engine with 2% spread on ET! But do I? The answer is NO!

Having the same File in each cylinder is a simple task as you know and we have all done years ago but its not correct way to do it and that is probably why Cat went this way. Muddy the water to trick people into thinking they cant do it. Its no big deal to do it but Why do it?
We can all overhaul the injector to make them all flow identical cc to within as much % as you like but that defeats the purpose of the trim codes and whey they were introduced.. ...The means of electronically adjusting the injector allow for variabilities in manufacture.

[Alligator]

Having the same File in each cylinder is a simple task as you know and we have all done years ago but its not correct way to do it and that is probably why Cat went this way. Muddy the water to trick people into thinking they cant do it. Its no big deal to do it but Why do it?
We can all overhaul the injector to make them all flow identical cc to within as much % as you like but that defeats the purpose of the trim codes and whey they were introduced.. ...The means of electronically adjusting the injector allow for variabilities in manufacture.

You won't touch the data eh? Well I guess I know what level your on...LOL
When you have a set of 6 injectors that are identical on every aspect why would you put mud on it? @ CAT They don't assemble any part of the injector it's all built by robots. <The MUD They mass produce injectors, like myself.
So if you could hand build every injector like your self then it would be easier to make them all the exact same in every aspect so you can through the same code on all six. send them off with three codes, (good) (clean) and (mean)
which would be three different stages. be alot better then looking at a fuel table to see what trim code you need to put on it. Everything should be done right in the building stage, that way you no what your going to see on the test bench.

[Far_Call]

There is too many variables in any given injector to worry about time wise to have them all on the same trim. Again it defeats the purpose of Trimming for the reason it was designed. I usually set mine to as many as 6 levels depending on the application and total HP. When working with Tip that flow 12 kilo/min you get a very large % of fuel variation at 18mm of Rack by way of Trim. In comparison to a STD C15 with 2.828 Kilo/min with 11 mm of rack.

You can talk about the data block anytime you like!!!
Changing the Serial # in the Trim file "Additional Information" block does not alter the data block or the serial within the data block hence ET shows all the same serial.
However the Oscilloscope will show the wave form and its variations in Pilot Injection through to its Post Injection depending on what Flash file its using and what Trim file you use. What the trim file can do and what the Flash file uses can be two different things as Cat does not in most cases use all of its Patent functions.

[Underpsi]

Wrong^ Maybe if you new what you were doing or where you were getting your product, new what they were doing.
If you say I am wrong, thats like interuppting me while I'm doing my job. You don't see me coming to your job and kicking the dick out of your mouth.
If you are a "Mechanical Injection Technicain/Engineer" you might figure out that everthing is a factor.

I didn't say you're just changing the tips if you read my post right. I said I hope you're doing other things and NOT just changing/honing the tips. I also didn't say I know what I'm doing with injectors (internally). You're still talking that you can build so much hp just by trim codes which is obviously bogus.

I don't know where you think I buy my stuff from but I can bet its not from where you think!

My biggest question is if you're so good why doesn't everybody know about you? If you knew you were good and everyone who bought your stuff knows it than it wouldn't take long for everybody to want your stuff.

Unless your name is Louis then I have no idea why you're so cocky.