kia picanto non starter

[smokinjoe]

hi to all,
i have a 2005 picanto 1.0 with kefico (bosch) ecu,the problem is i have no immo or engine management light appearing on the cluster and no communication with the engine ecu. the supply voltages appear good to the ecu and all earths,fuses and relays are good.
any ideas would be much appreciated and just to add the cluster lights used to come on intermittantly but would flicker but if they stayed on permanently the car would start but now theres not even a flicker
thanks.

[jebo]

hi to all,
i have a 2005 picanto 1.0 with kefico (bosch) ecu,the problem is i have no immo or engine management light appearing on the cluster and no communication with the engine ecu. the supply voltages appear good to the ecu and all earths,fuses and relays are good.
any ideas would be much appreciated and just to add the cluster lights used to come on intermittantly but would flicker but if they stayed on permanently the car would start but now theres not even a flicker
thanks.

hi,
not really very familiar with picanto.
obviously, its an intermittent power supply issue.
maybe power is ok to ECU but intermittent or no power going to immo box (if equipt). or immo is incorporated into the cluster.

check this, maybe it can help:
Free File Sharing Made Simple - MediaFire

[smokinjoe]

there is no immo box just an amplifier that sends a signal direct to the engine control,just another thought is i have no power to the fuel pump fuse and seems like a fuel shut off fault but cannot find an inertia anywhere..
thanks for the download.

[oldford]

Chances are your ecu is not powered up.
Check whether or not the 5-volt supply is present.
5-volt is used by the TPS, engine coolant temp, intake air temp, map-sensor (if present).

Where in the electrical circuit is the fuse for the fuel pump? Usually it's in FRONT of the relay. When that's the case this is 1 of your problems.
What happens if you remove the fuel pump fuse and feed it directly from the battery (with a floating fuse to be save)?

[smokinjoe]

thanks,if i put +12v to the fuse the pump runs but still no cel or immo on the cluster.

[jebo]

thanks,if i put +12v to the fuse the pump runs but still no cel or immo on the cluster.

hi,
did the reading material i posted usable for your picanto?

have you checked the items described by oldford (presence of "5 Volts")?

you also mentioned this:
"the cluster lights used to come on intermittantly but would flicker but if they stayed on permanently the car would start but now theres not even a flicker"

i think, next good move is to check the cause of the intermittent cluster first because as you have mentioned, it will start if the cluster ligths up permanently.

if in doubt of the ecu:
check with oscilloscope if the ecu processor's crystal oscillator is working or has a sine waveform.
and check if processor receives a +5volts at its vcc pin.

you also mentioned:
"no communication with the engine ecu"
if you meant was, that your scanner or code reader cannot find or communicate with the ecu, then maybe ecu lacks +12volts or +5volts(inside) supply for processor or worst is you have a dead ecu.

[smokinjoe]

thanks to you both for your help on this one its much appreciated and jebo yes the information you sent was very helpful as autodata was giving the wrong information on ecu pinouts.
so i've moved on a little with this job and can eliminate the engine ecu as i've been able to get one from a donor car to try but still no luck.
supply voltages all appear to be good at ecm but i don't have +5v to the sensors that oldford mentioned although +12v is present at other sensors so it does seem to be a +5v issue.
just clutching at straws now but could the CKP sensor be an issue here?,i would have thought if this was the case i should still be able to get communication to read faults though?
oldford,the fuel pump fuse is after the relay on this one.
i have a friend coming tomorrow with pico so will scope for signal at the cam and crank,anything other suggestions that might help would as always be much appreciated.

[cjawahir]

hi , the five volts wire check the resistance to ground , if its very low then you have a short to ground .

find that 5 volt wire next to ecu and cut it , now check to see if the check light is on now .

cj

[oldford]

No +5 volt supply, No comms and No check light equals No power/ground to the ecu in my book.
It seems other parts of the system are also not getting power, like the fuel pump relay.
I wouldn't start cutting wires, just yet. I would try to find the 12V supply that has been cut in stead.

[smokinjoe]

with the fuel pump relay i have voltage as follows,
term 30 +12v constant
term 85+12v ign
term 86 +12v to ecu
term 87 is a direct feed to the fuel pump fuse below it which strangely has no power,its not a faulty relay as they have been swapped and when voltage is put to this wire the pump will run which suggests no broken wire in between.

[oldford]

Hate to disappoint you, but tow it to a dealer or at least somebody that knows what he's doing.

[cjawahir]

find the ecu relay , if the ecu relay is working and all voltage is ok , then look for ground problem

if all this above is ok , then check the 5 volts wire resistance to ground ..

note : forget about the fuel pump for now , that cannot work until the ecu is working , my friend if you dont know that then send it to a good technician.

cj

[Meat-Head]

No +5 volt supply, No comms and No check light equals No power/ground to the ecu OR THE ECU IT'S SELF in my book.

Look, mate, don't want to fall out with you, because your a BRILLANT member, but if you ever get a Jeep Cherokee, thats no power to ASD relay,
no comms, immo light on, no 5 volt output.

You put your left hand in the engine bay, then, you put your right hand in, you do the hokey cokey, slam your body down, unplug the cranck sensor, see if it comes back to life. Back to reality

Meat

[jebo]

on page 75 of the attached pdf is your guide in checking your ecu.

as oldford and cjawahir is telling you regarding the +5volts, you can check the following pins:
pin 32. TPS 5V reference and pin 33. T_MAP sensor 5V reference.

if this pins are found to be grounded for a long time, then chances is it might damage the MCU or the 5volt regulator inside the ECU.

you should also check the following pins.
3, 51, 53 & 80 Power ground
check if properly grounded to chassis or to battery negative terminal.
12. Back-up (memory) power, always +12volts
44,. 45, 63, 73 & 74 Power input, +12volts when ignition switch is On.

and btw, what is the status now of "cluster lights used to come on intermittantly but would flicker" ?
again, i think, this issue must be checked FIRST if it still exist.

[busaman]

i know this thread is old but i had exactly the same problem this week it was a corroded brown wire under the splashguard inside the trunking in the loom all the ecu pinouts show good but it wont work till you fix this wire hope this helps somone.